hparrish 0 #51 April 18, 2007 Quote>That may well be true. But I am glad they are trying. Perhaps other DZ's will take other approaches, and we'll be able to see which approach is the best overall. I encourage swoopers to lobby their DZ's to make the changes they would prefer, so that they don't get stuck with something they don't like. (As we've seen, the one thing that _doesn't_ work is "do nothing and hope nothing changes.") Bluu Blah Blu Blah, Blah, Blah.............................. Hey Bill..............I finally figured out what your problem is. You're a Broken Record, that keeps palying the same song over, and over, and over, until everyone is sick of hearing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #52 April 18, 2007 QuoteThat may well be true. But I am glad they are trying. Perhaps other DZ's will take other approaches, and we'll be able to see which approach is the best overall. I encourage swoopers to lobby their DZ's to make the changes they would prefer, so that they don't get stuck with something they don't like. (As we've seen, the one thing that _doesn't_ work is "do nothing and hope nothing changes.") We are telling them, with a very loud voice...you know the one thats green and paper and now goes to other dropzones in the winter.... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #53 April 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteA true swooper is a student of canopy flight, more accurately safe canopy flight. A swooper knows and understands the risks involved and more importantly how to mitigate them by knowing their own limitations as well as those of the equipment being employed. The most dangerous thing in the air is the skydiver who has enough jumps that they are allowed to fly whatever they want, who has never taken the time to explore the above limitations, and as such does not have the tools to mitigate risks or avoid bad situations. Dan, that has to be the best thing I have read on here yet. nice job. The world must be coming to an end. I agree with both Mark AND Dan at the same time. I reinforced a belief this past Saurday, that I've had for a while. I need more training. I hope EVERYONE else looks at their own skill sets and comes to the same conclusions. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #54 April 23, 2007 I aborted a swoop on saturday cause I didnt know what someone was doing that was below me... cant wait for the no traffic days of free hop and popss (videoing tandems) Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonicfreefly 0 #55 April 23, 2007 Yesterday I to aborted a swoop. I was setting up 270 and saw another pilot coming from my right and below me setting up for a 180. I had plenty of time to make a decision to abort. After landing I thought that if I was setting up 180 as well he would have been in my blind spot at that time and I would have not had a visual on him, my time to make a decision to abort would have been significantly reduced and may have ended in a close call or worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #56 April 25, 2007 QuoteAlso the desert is not always quite as friendly as the grass when you want to drag your feet on the ground... no where near... a fact that has killed at least one high performance canopy pilot when 'landing off' wonder how SDAZ will feel when they get a lawsuit from a 'swooper death' caused DIRECTLY by a policy that forces them to 'land off' in uncleared areas of desert...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #57 April 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteAlso the desert is not always quite as friendly as the grass when you want to drag your feet on the ground... no where near... a fact that has killed at least one high performance canopy pilot when 'landing off' wonder how SDAZ will feel when they get a lawsuit from a 'swooper death' caused DIRECTLY by a policy that forces them to 'land off' in uncleared areas of desert... I don't think the policy "forces" anyone to land anywhere.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #58 April 25, 2007 Quotewonder how SDAZ will feel when they get a lawsuit from a 'swooper death' caused DIRECTLY by a policy that forces them to 'land off' in uncleared areas of desert... I believe we are on the same side of this issue Zenster, but as a swooper I find it incomprehensible to think about a lawsuit from a swoop gone bad no matter when and where it occured. Are we or are we not supposed to be responsible jumpers out there who make our own decisions as to when it is or isn't a good time to induce speed for our landings? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #59 April 25, 2007 I'm not thinking of a lawsuit.. I'm pointing out lawsuits can come from anywhere... this policy specifically to 'avoid them' could easily backfire... a more responsible approach would be to create separate landing areas, but that might cut into the profit margins...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #60 April 25, 2007 Quotea more responsible approach would be to create separate landing areas, but that might cut into the profit margins... I thought Eloy already had separate landing areas. It just appears that far too many (slow) canopy pilots are insisting on landing in Eloy's north LZ when they really should be using the south one. Why does the south landing area even exist? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #61 April 27, 2007 Quote It just appears that far too many (slow) canopy pilots are insisting on landing in Eloy's north LZ when they really should be using the south one. Why?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #62 April 27, 2007 QuoteQuote It just appears that far too many (slow) canopy pilots are insisting on landing in Eloy's north LZ when they really should be using the south one. Why? Are you serious? Landing without audience? Walking if we can just fly back? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #63 April 27, 2007 Sorry should have been clearer - are the "fast" canopy pilots supposed to land in the north area and the "slow" canopy pilots in the south one? I don't remember that being a rule when i was there.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #64 April 27, 2007 QuoteSorry should have been clearer - are the "fast" canopy pilots supposed to land in the north area and the "slow" canopy pilots in the south one? I don't remember that being a rule when i was there. Does it really matter? None wants to land far without an audience. We have 2 landing areas: some grass in the middle and a small sand/gravel area close. Only turbulence can move people go for grass for sure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #65 April 27, 2007 98% of the jumps i did at Eloy i landed in the South area after our cameraman was nearly taken out on final by someone doing a 270 virtually on top of him. I just think its a weird thing to say that the "slow" people should land in the south thats all.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #66 April 27, 2007 Quote98% of the jumps i did at Eloy i landed in the South area after our cameraman was nearly taken out on final by someone doing a 270 virtually on top of him. I just think its a weird thing to say that the "slow" people should land in the south thats all. I have not jumped in Eloy yet. Jumpers don't like to walk anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #67 April 27, 2007 you know after someone almost took me out I started adding looking up to my head on a swivel routine just want to throw that out there Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #68 April 27, 2007 QuoteI just think its a weird thing to say that the "slow" people should land in the south thats all. Do you honestly believe that fast canopies and slow ones should be landing in the same space. We typically don't do this in aviation, so why is it a good idea to do this in skydiving? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #69 April 27, 2007 Because your typical F-15 isn't in full afterburners when he's trying to land along side a 152 Landing areas shouild be used no matter what the speed of the canopy flight is, if you want to start blocking it off for 80% of the jumpers out there then that will just encourage those people to either go somewhere else to jump or to land. I'm sure if the local swoopers all go together and chip in Larry would let you convert a chunk of the desert into a swoop landing area. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #70 April 27, 2007 Not necessarily but that wasn't my point. You implied that at Eloy, "slow" canopies should land at the south. Just made me laugh because presumably that came from the fact that YOU want to land at the North! For the record, i'm in agreement, separate landing areas would be better. But then, define Slow, Fast, Swoop etc. 270's shouldn't be done in traffic.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #71 April 27, 2007 Quoteyou know after someone almost took me out I started adding looking up to my head on a swivel routine just want to throw that out there Dave Ah you obviously have one of those transparent canopies Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #72 April 27, 2007 QuoteYou implied that at Eloy, "slow" canopies should land at the south. Just made me laugh because presumably that came from the fact that YOU want to land at the North! I want to jump where I can swoop. Eloy has three landing areas and now none of them are for high performance canopy flight. So why bother with three landing areas when everyone just wants to land in the north LZ. Quotedefine Slow, Fast, Swoop etc Jump a highly loaded x-braced canopy and you'll know the difference. A competent canopy pilot only needs to do a 90 harness turn on one of these x-braced canopies and they will be coming in faster than someone doing a 270 on say something like a Pilot 150. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #73 April 28, 2007 QuoteAh you obviously have one of those transparent canopies I pay attention to what is happening on my level above me and below me while I am setting up... dont need a transparent cnaopy to figure that out... Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefli 2 #74 May 7, 2007 Another major US dz has adopted to 180 rule. Skydive Crosskeys has recently implemented this rule. It's sad one dz (SDA) can have such an effect. To implement a rule thinking it will fix things without any teaching, so sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #75 May 7, 2007 Quote Another major US dz has adopted to 180 rule. Skydive Crosskeys has recently implemented this rule. It's sad one dz (SDA) can have such an effect. To implement a rule thinking it will fix things without any teaching, so sad. So Cross Keys announced they were doing 2 things? 1 - cut in the 180 degree rule 2 - not teach I didn't know that doing one automatically precluded the other. It's good to know. It that will dramatically effect my position on this. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
