amir1967 0 #1 April 30, 2007 What would be longer recover arc canopy then Sabre-2 keep in mind that with the ruls down here I can't jump canopy's in level 5 and the one in level 4 look to my that they all have shorter arc then the Sabre-2 Advice anyone (ps after 35j on manta,15j on Sabre1 then 200j on Vengeance 170 then Sabre-2 170 for the last 200) So now I'm looking for another canopy 150ft and the my main criteria is long recovery arc (at least as Sabre-2 What other option are there??? AmirAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #2 April 30, 2007 Why do you need a longer recovery arc? You should ask yourself that question first. Regarding canopy types, you might want to try the Nitro - I keep hearing good things about it. Also, if you get more experience, try a Xfire2. However, I think you need to be at the level where flying an elliptical at 1.6+ (Xfire2 149 for example) would be a reasonable thing to do.-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #3 April 30, 2007 QuoteWhy do you need a longer recovery arc? You should ask yourself that question first. Regarding canopy types, you might want to try the Nitro - I keep hearing good things about it. Also, if you get more experience, try a Xfire2. However, I think you need to be at the level where flying an elliptical at 1.6+ (Xfire2 149 for example) would be a reasonable thing to do. I Like to land on front riser and dont like to start low the Vengeance xf-2 katana will all be on the list but that will take another 250 jump at leastAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #4 April 30, 2007 That's a funny list. The Nitro is class 4 and the Nitron is class 5, even though they are very similar canopies. Diablos have longer arcs but they suck at higher loadings (in my opinion.) I had an odd experience this weekend, when I jumped a Safire2 109. I expected it to fly a lot like a Pilot 104, but it had a longer arc and a significantly better opening than the Pilot. It's also a Category 3 so I assume you wouldn't have a problem jumping one - but I don't know what its arc is like at lighter loadings (I was almost 2:1.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendragon 1 #5 April 30, 2007 I found the Safire2 recovery arc longer than my Pilot, although the Safire2 was loaded at 1.6 and the Pilot at 1.4. My Pilot opened very well though - same as the Safire2! People tell me that both are shorter than the Sabre2 at a given wing loading. I agree with you re Nitro/Nitron. Both are elliptical anyway, aren't they? ... and I thought the Nitron was a copy of the Nitro?-- BASE #1182 Muff #3573 PFI #52; UK WSI #13 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #6 April 30, 2007 hows your accuracy with swooping... I spent enough time to learn swoop accuracy for lanes and finishing spot on my sabre 2 170 and then moved to the 150 for about another 100 jumps...then I went to the Crossfire 2... spend the time on accuracy learnign on the sabre 2 man you wont be dissapointed.... Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #7 April 30, 2007 >Both are elliptical anyway, aren't they? Both are fairly elliptical. > ... and I thought the Nitron was a copy of the Nitro? I don't know if they are exact copies of each other but they are very close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #8 May 1, 2007 Yes they are very close. Beezy says the patterns are the same but the Nitro has spanwise reinforcement tape and extra stabilizer reinforcing that the Nitron doesn't have. I just demo'd a 150 Nitro and you can see the reinforcing when under canopy. Definitely has a short recovery arc however."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #9 May 1, 2007 If you want to learn to swoop, a Sabre-2 150 would probably do just nicely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #10 May 1, 2007 thank's for all the reply I had the same idea that the Sabre-2 will be my best option at this time AmirAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #11 May 1, 2007 Quote Yes they are very close. Beezy says the patterns are the same but the Nitro has spanwise reinforcement tape and extra stabilizer reinforcing that the Nitron doesn't have. I just demo'd a 150 Nitro and you can see the reinforcing when under canopy. Definitely has a short recovery arc however. I beg to differ on that recovery arc. I put arount 600 jumps on a Nitro 120 loaded from @ 1.6 up to 1.8. (What can I say, I put on weight) In fact it was one of the first units imported into the states. I was a demo unit made for Precision before they had begun production on their units, so I had the South African material and HMA lines, just like the HiPer canopies. I say its got a longer recovery arc than the Stilletto for sure. I cant compare it to an equivialent Nitron as I've never jumped one. For instance I was making my 270 turn with my Nitro around 550' - 575', with rotation starting from brakes and taking around 3.5-4 seconds to complete. Keep in mind all this info is off analog gear, and somewhat of a best guess scenario. A highly loaded Nitro will do some amazing things, even with a wing size of 120. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #12 May 1, 2007 QuoteIf you want to learn to swoop, a Sabre-2 150 would probably do just nicely. Agreed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #13 May 1, 2007 If you're now a cat 4 jumper, you can't go to a 150 because of the wingload Up to 1.5, you'd hit 1.6. Should've stayed with the vengeance ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #14 May 1, 2007 Quote If you're now a cat 4 jumper, you can't go to a 150 because of the wingload Up to 1.5, you'd hit 1.6. Should've stayed with the vengeance I though 90kl 198lb + 20 gear = 218 / 150 = 1.45 I guess I lost some weight but it still nice to see that some people careAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #15 May 1, 2007 I loaded my sabre2 170 the same that you are now, and I learned a shitload about swooping on it... hitting gates... slight carves... accuracy areas... how to fly a pattern... then I transfered that to the 150 and gained some smaller perspective.... Cheers man Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #16 May 3, 2007 Saber2 Kicks ass, so does the Nitro/Nitron. I know just how you feel wanting to get to a longer recovery arc and why. The thing is that now that I'm jumping a Velo I've found what all those guys who were saying it's the canopy and not the pilot were right! Oh yeah, and every aspiring swoopers favorite thing to hear, "Wring all the performance out of your current canopy." I thought they were trying to keep me safe...maybe they were, but I think what they were trying to tell me was that what you learn on those less elliptical, shallower diving canopies, translates very well to the more elliptical negative recovery arc canopies. Then it becomes a situation where your dialing in a new canopy vs. learning shit you should have learned earlier. I haven't jumped the others, for my money it's the Saber 2 or the Nitro! Peace! JasonFaith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,065 #17 May 3, 2007 >I say its got a longer recovery arc than the Stilletto for sure. Definitely - but it also has a shorter arc than a less-aggressive canopy like a Safire2. I had the opportunity to jump both a Safire2 109 and my usual Nitro 108 last weekend on several back-to-backs, and the Safire2, even though it's not billed as a swooping canopy, had a somewhat longer arc and lighter front riser pressure. (Which was a surprise to me - the Pilot doesn't scale down that well.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obadz 0 #18 May 3, 2007 What's this category 4/5 business? I'm assuming it's local regulations that prevent you from jumping certain categories? Is there a summary somewhere of who can jump what and where? I heard some really weird regulations (I was told that in Finland, one is not allowed to touch a front riser below a certain altitude and before a certain # of jumps..) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #19 May 3, 2007 its way more than that... I dont think you can ump certain types of canopies until after 500 jumps canopy classes are explained here nicely http://www.icaruscanopies.aero/choosing.htm Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obadz 0 #20 May 3, 2007 According to this page, it seems like it's just a quantization of wing-loadings (without any importance attached to the trim, tapering, x-bracing, etc.). Seems pretty useless to me; after all, the wing-loading carries strictly more information... correct me if I'm wrong? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #21 May 3, 2007 Yes It is Ducth regulation I don't have them with me so I'll post them another time . but for me in short after 400 jumps I can go to category 4 which I don't see any canopy that I really like to jump as long as my wingload is not more then 1.5 and no canopy smaller then 135ft2 Yes we have a lot of rules here Are there less skydivers dead then in the US maybe,but the number of jump in the Netherlands is way less then in the US ( I think somewhere in 100,000 per year may be with one fatality. maybe someone in the US knows how many jump are made there) * ps in my club PCMN we make ± 5,500 jumps / year * in Eloy holidayboogie 2003 we made 2,000 per day both friday and saturdayAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydemon 0 #22 May 3, 2007 Quote I Like to land on front riser and dont like to start low the Vengeance xf-2 katana will all be on the list but that will take another 250 jump at least Try a safire 1 at 1.5-1.7 loadings. The safire 1 has longest recovery than the safire 2, sabre 2 and pilot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RkyMtnHigh 0 #23 May 3, 2007 *Jumping up and down* *waving arms* SABRE2!!! SABRE2!!! I've had two of them brand new.(190, then 170)..and am about to buy my third...loved them all!!! I've landed out several times with each and have felt confident under each which is why I want my next downsize to be another SABRE2!! I'm on an interim canopy til I can buy my next SABRE2 150 which is a Vengeance..and okay, I'm not going to complain, it flys nice and flares nice...but I miss my SABRE2~~ _________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #24 May 3, 2007 QuoteI've had two of them brand new.(190, then 170)..and am about to buy my third...loved them all!!! I've landed out several times with each and have felt confident under each which is why I want my next downsize to be another SABRE2!! Have you tried anything else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #25 May 3, 2007 We have the category rules here, there are numerous threads about it on dropzone.com. Nothing to do with Icarus categories, these are our national rules. According to your total jumpnumbers and currency you fall into a certain category, which then tells you which canopy types you're allowed to jump, at which sizes and at what max wingloading. I don't know which "page" you're refeering to but here's the total tring (in Dutch of course but should be fairly easy to make sense of). Canopy rules: http://www.parachute.nl/fileadmin/knvvlpa_upload/pdf/bvrba.pdf Canopies: http://www.parachute.nl/fileadmin/knvvlpa_upload/pdf/bvrbb.pdf ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
