sysop 0 #1 May 29, 2007 We have some discusion about best mode for best glide in back wind for XC flight. One guy talk about locked brakes and use some mode on rear risers. Second guy talk about some mode on wide rear risers with unlock brakes. Who will win in this discusion. Wingload 2.5 for first and above 2.1 for second.www.speedflying.ru Mountian Fly School Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #2 May 29, 2007 It really depends on what the winds are doing. If you are up wind and running with the wind then deep brakes to float as long as possible will be your friend. If you are fighting a head wind then Rear risers are the best approach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sysop 0 #3 May 29, 2007 Two pilots will fly in one jump and side-by-side, from 1500m. Downwind above 20 km/h. and have some question: best glide combination: minimal vertical speed and max horisontal speed will be on brakes or rear risers?www.speedflying.ru Mountian Fly School Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 May 29, 2007 If you're jumping a Velo you shouldn't have to ask these sorts of questions. Go do some jumps and play with different flight configurations and body positions (which make a huge difference) and see for yourself. Play with toggles, rears, toggles with rears, etc. Besure to play with different body positions to see whats going on. The best bet is to go do some clear and pulls with someone on a similarly loaded Velo and to work on some "box" drills. Horizontal boxes using nothing but body position to move forward and back from your base.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #5 May 29, 2007 >Second guy talk about some mode on wide rear risers with unlock brakes. What he's referring to is spreading your rear risers with the brakes unstowed. This pulls the tail down slightly and reduces the 'cathedral' of the canopy; that makes it more efficient and flattens the glide a bit. This is a good method of extending your glide in light winds. This works best with a slider all the way down (or removed) and the chest strap loosened. When you are upwind, generally moderate brakes are your best bet. When you're in no wind, spreading the rears works pretty well. When you are downwind, generally full flight will get you the most distance covered. If you are actually backing up, front risers will help you not get backed up too much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #6 May 30, 2007 Im of the opinion that brakes are will provide a pilot (loaded 2.1 or higher) with a slow decent (for an Xbrace) but little ground coverage. This depends on your winds (headwind or tailwind). I feel that rears and wide rears are not so different. At a loading of 2.18. IMHO mild to moderate rear inputs gives me my best glide ratio for light to moderate wind conditions in both directions. But the again, I've so much to learn. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #7 May 30, 2007 Quote Im of the opinion that brakes are will provide a pilot (loaded 2.1 or higher) with a slow decent (for an Xbrace) but little ground coverage. This depends on your winds (headwind or tailwind). I feel that rears and wide rears are not so different. At a loading of 2.18. IMHO mild to moderate rear inputs gives me my best glide ratio for light to moderate wind conditions in both directions. But the again, I've so much to learn. yes, but hippie, if you stay up in the wind longer you will cover more ground. hence the hanging in brakes in a downwind situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #8 May 30, 2007 QuoteIt really depends on what the winds are doing. If you are up wind and running with the wind then deep brakes to float as long as possible will be your friend. If you are fighting a head wind then Rear risers are the best approach. i've found that this is the best configuration for me. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #9 May 30, 2007 Quote Quote Im of the opinion that brakes are will provide a pilot (loaded 2.1 or higher) with a slow decent (for an Xbrace) but little ground coverage. This depends on your winds (headwind or tailwind). I feel that rears and wide rears are not so different. At a loading of 2.18. IMHO mild to moderate rear inputs gives me my best glide ratio for light to moderate wind conditions in both directions. But the again, I've so much to learn. yes, but hippie, if you stay up in the wind longer you will cover more ground. hence the hanging in brakes in a downwind situation. Let me preface this by saying: Im going to do some more playing around with this. It "feels" to me that I decend less on rears than in moderate to deep brakes. I get this "feel" by making those long spots back to the DZ. I'll admit, now I wanna go play with each flying mode upwind and downwind and checking my alti to see exactly whats happening with my decent rate.Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #10 May 30, 2007 Quote When you are upwind, generally moderate brakes are your best bet. When you're in no wind, spreading the rears works pretty well. When you are downwind, generally full flight will get you the most distance covered. If you are actually backing up, front risers will help you not get backed up too much. While I have nothing against what Bill just said, I feel that I should remind anyone who doesnt already know that being upwind is exactly the opposite of flying upwind and ofcourse being downwind is the opposite of flying downwind Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #11 May 30, 2007 "When you are downwind, generally full flight will get you the most distance covered. If you are actually backing up, front risers will help you not get backed up too much." Bad information for a velocity. Full flight and fronts will provide to much sink. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #12 May 30, 2007 Quote"When you are downwind, generally full flight will get you the most distance covered. If you are actually backing up, front risers will help you not get backed up too much." Bad information for a velocity. Full flight and fronts will provide to much sink. Besides the double fronts, I agree with Billvon. Straight into a decent head-wind I just let her go full tilt. I find I cover more ground that way....albeit at the sacrifice of altitude. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #13 May 30, 2007 If the wind is enough that you are in a dead stand still on a velo it may be a little to windy to be jumping in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #14 May 30, 2007 No argument from me there Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yardhippie 0 #15 May 30, 2007 Quote Besides the double fronts, I agree with Billvon. Straight into a decent head-wind I just let her go full tilt. I find I cover more ground that way....albeit at the sacrifice of altitude. Blues, Ian Im not inclined to agree. Just last weekend I had to fly upwind for a good bit, toyed with my brakes, rears, full flight. It "felt" like I was making similar ground coverage with a light (1 -3" of deflection) rear input vs. full flight. I should really come up for a visit, so I got someone to gauge this off of. Goddam dirty hippies piss me off! ~GFD "What do I get for closing your rig?" ~ me "Anything you want." ~ female skydiver Mohoso Rodriguez #865 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #16 May 30, 2007 > Full flight and fronts will provide to much sink. That is correct. And if you sink fast, you will get on the ground before you back up too much. If you find yourself backing up towards a big hazard (like a lake) front risers can get you on the ground before the wind has a chance to get you over the lake. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #17 May 31, 2007 Isn't the title of the thread called "Best Glide mode on a Velo"? He didn't ask about flying backwards into a pond or lake. Besides do you even regularly jump a velocity? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 107 #18 May 31, 2007 QuoteHe didn't ask about flying backwards into a pond or lake. No, he didn't. You were the one who started the headwind tangent, in the first reply to the original post. On any canopy, including a Velocity, if the headwind equals the brakes-released airspeed of the canopy, then increasing the forward speed of the canopy (by using front risers) is the only choice for covering ground. Are you (even) familiar with the term "ad hominem?" Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #19 May 31, 2007 Quote Besides do you even regularly jump a velocity? awesome...love it....how could he know anything about flying if he doesn't fly a velo...j/k man. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #20 May 31, 2007 > Isn't the title of the thread called "Best Glide mode on a Velo"? He >didn't ask about flying backwards into a pond or lake. Yes. How you get best glide varies with wind, from tailwind (brakes) to strong headwind (front risers.) Unfortunately under some conditions the best you can do is to lessen how fast you back up. >Besides do you even regularly jump a velocity? Nope. Just on occasion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #21 May 31, 2007 Quote If the wind is enough that you are in a dead stand still on a velo it may be a little to windy to be jumping in my opinion. Maybe, but I have done it. Hop n pop from 5000ft, winds at 35 kts. The best option was to get down below 2000 ft as quickly as possible where there was less wind. With a Velo that something you can do quickly Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #22 May 31, 2007 QuoteThe best option was to get down below 2000 ft as quickly as possible where there was less wind. Nope. The top two options would be to A) Not jump in those winds, or B) Do a better job of spotting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #23 May 31, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe best option was to get down below 2000 ft as quickly as possible where there was less wind. Nope. The top two options would be to A) Not jump in those winds, or B) Do a better job of spotting. Nope, a) I had no problem jumping in those winds b) Spotting was great, I landed exactly where I wanted to. I don't "recommend" that anyone repeats what I did. But this is something a few of us do on our DZ when the winds are high. Towards the evening when the ground winds have dropped a bit we will jump when the winds are still high at 3000 - 5000 ft. We know what we are doing. Your comments may apply to less experienced jumpers or those who do not know the DZ very well. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #24 May 31, 2007 All, Please, lets try keep this on topic. There are going to be differing opinions on this matter but lets try and stick to the topic at hand please. Thanks, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #25 June 3, 2007 Try both. Take a wrap with your break lines then push apart on your rears. This both slows your decent rate and flatens out your glide angle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
