MedicJumper 0 #1 August 20, 2007 Hello all, I have ALMOST made a mistake recently but fornutately wisened up. I have developped a strong interest in the swooping part of skydiving and plan on concentrating on that discipline for the future. My mistake: I wanted to swoop, so I looked at swooping canopies: i.e. I was planning on buying a xaos 108. Now there's nothing wrong with that except for the fact that I have nowhere near the number of jumps (850) or expertise to fly this yet (IMHO) even if I consider myself a competent canopy flyer and have had good canopy coaching in the past in terms of flying patterns, accuracy, basic swooping techniques. I know some people will say 850 jumps is good enough if you're talented, serious...etc. (huh, which I am damnit!). I used to think the same but have since changed my mind. Hell, I hate saying it but 100 guys with 3000-4000-5000 jumps can't all be wrong. It's almost a constant with these guys. When you ask them what they hate the most about the sport they answer: "I wish people would stop asking me advice and not follow it, then get hurt because they downsized too fast"... well here's one for you guys. You convinced one guy at least. My solution: Instead of the Xaos, I decided to go for a new Crossfire 2 119 loaded at 1.6 for the moment... from a used crossfire 119 that was getting old. Not much of a downsize you say? Well, you're right but I figured a good swooper is a swooper who can land and jump again, instead of one who lands and go THUMP. My question: I really want to learn this so I'm looking for serious canopy control school geared for the would be swooper. I don't really care where (in North America anyway) but I want the best, because one day I WILL swoop the damn pond on my Xaos, JVX or whatever they come up with when I'm ready... so any suggestions?Somewhere, someone is training when you are not. When you race him, you will loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CKSCUBA 0 #2 August 21, 2007 hi. a crossfire 2 loaded 1.6 is great. you will learn a lot from there. do you jump year round?? if your jumping a crossfire 1 the 2 will be faster. from there you can start to squeze the speed out of it ad become a active swoop pilot and not a canopy passenger. get some coaching from nice guys who are cool and know and fly the crossbraced stuff. hell take the next 200 jumps on that and then you will be over 1000 jumps. i also understand that the vx or the xaos 27 is a nice next step from a crossfire 2. another thing is you can downsize when your ready and you can fly crossfires down to 1.8-2.0 no problem. no rush to crossbraced. you can go across the bond on a crossfire 2 just fine. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #3 August 21, 2007 Just to throw in my 2 cents here. It isnt all about the jump numbers. Its about the progression. Someone who works from day one, training and focusing on high performance canopy flight at 850 jumps might very well be ready for that canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MedicJumper 0 #4 August 21, 2007 yeah... you know I kinda agree with that in the way that someone who skydive everyday, gets serious coaching takes courses... etc, etc. will progress faster. And for a while I really thought I was that guy because I love skydiving, always took it seriously, asked for advice etc... but when it comes down to be honest with myself... well I DON'T skydive everyday. I don't live in Cal. or Fl. where tons of swooper hangout. My dz (or the ones close by) just don't have the level of experience. I haven't swooped for 850 jumps either, people tend to forget that... swooping is a whole different discipline than Crew or doing RW and a normal approach... so all in all maybe someone out there is that guy that can jump that crossbraced right now. Wish to hell it was me but I'll wait another season. And more importantly after I get some training by people who know... any ideas?Somewhere, someone is training when you are not. When you race him, you will loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #5 August 21, 2007 On the flip side, the experience you have likely will help you learn swooping easier. I became a much better canopy pilot after doing a bunch of CRW. In my opinion, if you cannot stay fairly current, you are asking for disaster. As for progression, if there isnt an experienced jumper/instructer at your dz to get you going in the right direction, I would suggest finding one of scott millers canopy schools or come stateside for a camp or training. In the mean time, do lots of high hop and pops and play with your canopy. Just keep the turns off the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MedicJumper 0 #6 August 21, 2007 Scott Miller... that's in Florida I think right? I heard that name before. Oh, and don't get me wrong, I do use front riser approaches and do 90's regularly with my canopy... and the odd conservative 270 but I just know I'm not getting what I can out of that canopy... that's why I want a course.Somewhere, someone is training when you are not. When you race him, you will loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #7 August 21, 2007 Scott Miller lives in Deland, but travels the country (world?) given canopy seminars. I might be possible (and easier) to catch him in a location closer to you. When season closes, thats when you can catch him in Fl. From the http://www.freedomofflight.tv Website: August 17 - 19, 2007 Skydive Twin Cities, Baldwin, WI Contact Cheryl Smith at (715) 684-3416 or cheryl@skydivetwincities.com September 7 - 9, 2007 Carolina Sky Sports, Louisburg, NC Contact Nancy at (919) 496-2224 or Info@CarolinaSkySports.com September 14 - 16, 2007 Skydive Long Island, Calverton, NY Contact Art Sherry at 1-866-Y-SKYDIVE (975-9348) or art@skydivestore.com October 5 - 7, 2007 Skydive Carolina, Chester, SC Register online at www.skydivecarolina.com or call (803) 581-5867 scott@freedomofflight.tv Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canuck 0 #8 August 21, 2007 I don't know the East Coast at all, so there might be some great choices there. In Cali, you can't beat Perris. Clint, JC, and Luigi are often there coaching, and they have a pond to swoop over. You can get lots of loads in, and those three guys are all pretty dedicated canopy pilots. Eloy would also be a good choice. Jeffro is usually available for canopy coaching, and they do still allow bigger turns over the pond on hop and pops. Jason Peters is also there, and a great canopy coach, but is often working in the tunnel. Good luck with it! Canuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klafollette 0 #9 August 21, 2007 I just went through Brian Germain's course last week. Even though it was "General Canopy" course, there were people from 50-1500 jumps in it. Even people who proclaimed to be "swoopers" learned a lot. It is mostly classroom presentation/discussion rather than dedicated flying type of course. You do have some jumps and filmed landings, but even though we were rained out for 1 day, I don't feel like I missed out on its value. It really helps to understand how parachutes work, what makes them fly (and fall out of the sky). Looks like he's doing east coast over next month, and in Alberta in late September. Don't see any of his advanced canopy "swooping" courses listed, you might need to email him for schedule. http://www.bigairsportz.com/schedule.php Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tetra316 0 #10 August 21, 2007 I've been to a couple different canopy seminars from Brian Germain and Wyatt Drews. By FAR the best one I have been to was the PD fasttrax challenge the PD guys put on New Years at Sebastain. It was exclusively geared to swooping (or at least the group I was in was). The groups were 4-6 people working all day with one pd guy. Very hands on coaching and personalized to your style. I would do that again any day but don't think I will ever go to another Germain or Miller type seminar. But then again my focus is on learning to swoop, not canopy flight in general which is what they other. Great info but I wanted more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MedicJumper 0 #11 August 22, 2007 Thanks guys. Great feedback. Tara, sounds like your course is closest to what I`m looking for. I`ll look into that... + nothing wrong with spending some time down in Sebastian! Great location, beautiful view... I can live with that!Somewhere, someone is training when you are not. When you race him, you will loose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
