What do you do before learning to swoop?

[Ktownbret 0]

For the record I live in Canada and have never seen the USPA's SIM.

www.okanaganskydive.com

[Ktownbret 0]

The info in the SIM was great, but still not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for exercises up high that eventually lead to dbl fr riser landings and small carves.

Also ideas on how to progress people. maybe 10 consistant landings befor moving on to another level, with a low or out of control landing moving the person back a level.

I understand that everyone is going to progress at a different speed. I think their should be some guidelines.

I've seen guys swooping really well at the 500 jump level, and others with over 1000 who are digging themselves out of the corner on every landing

I would rather see my friends who are interested in learning to swoop become the former, and enjoy the continued use of their legs for many years to come.

www.okanaganskydive.com

[AggieDave 6]

That section in the SIM does teach a progression to get to being a consistent swooper. Same with Scott Miller's basic course. This is because of the focus on canopy flight fundamentals and your pattern. Without a consistent pattern and the ability to land accurately with that pattern you will never be a consistent swooper.

Pulling a front riser is the easy part. A monkey could do it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[bob.dino 1]

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For the record I live in Canada and have never seen the USPA's SIM.

Here's the SIM.

And here's 6.11.

[Ktownbret 0]

yes, I agree. Of course patterns and accuracy should come first. As should all other aspects of canopy flight. Our CSPA manuals have almost the exact same info.

After these issues are delt with I would like to see some guide lines for learning to swoop in the safest way. a place to start.

I was thinking drills for dble risers, then drills for dbl fr to flare up high? Learn the altitude lost while diving with the particular canopy. Learn what it feel like to recover from the dive.

After working at this for some time(how long I dont know) start working on a dbl fr riser landing recovering way to high and very slowly easing down over many jumps.

after mastering this. maybe some small carves? Same thing, learned up high over many jumps then eased in down low

Do you guys think I am on the right track with this.

It is only a brainstorm at this point.

Bret

www.okanaganskydive.com

[hackish 8]

So I extracted the data from my altimeter. On front risers I was descending at a rate of 16mph. I must have let up on the fronts earlier than I thought because at 100ft the descent rate dropped to a steady 11mph until the flare/landing.

-Michael

[2shay 0]

I think that you are too smart for your own good my freind. Don't think so technical about everything sometimes it just doesn't add up on how it works. Just do what the experienced swoopers tell you to do. If you do, you will do well.

don't try your bullshit with me!!!

[rehmwa 2]

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I think that you are too smart for your own good my freind. Don't think so technical about everything sometimes it just doesn't add up on how it works. Just do what the experienced swoopers tell you to do. If you do, you will do well.

each person has their own comfort zone - some people just 'feel it', others need the technical stuff

a good instructor teaches what works for them - a great instructor figures out how his student learns best and talks their language

maybe hackish learns better if he has some measures to gage his performance against......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Ktownbret 0]

I agree with rehmwa. This guy(or some guy reading this) could be at some small DZ with out anyone who really knows how to swoop properly. For me, traveling to Florida for a canopy course just is not possible.

His jump #s show that he is nowhere near experianced enough to be swooping, that is for sure.

How about rather then attacking him, give him some good exercises to work on up high.

He was asking to be pointed in the right direction to learn this safely. Not how to do 270

www.okanaganskydive.com

[punkd 0]

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So I extracted the data from my altimeter. On front risers I was descending at a rate of 16mph. I must have let up on the fronts earlier than I thought because at 100ft the descent rate dropped to a steady 11mph until the flare/landing.

-Michael

Since Gatineau is closed I take it you were jumping at Mile High in arnprior. Were you on double fronts just trying to make it back to the short grass? Cause other than the actual dz building/trailer city/runway your clear for hazards all that wide open field in the middle of the triangle. I understand you were trying to get some forward penetration to "make it back"
where were you going to land if you didn't use your fronts?


(Red box in picture is the DZ with landing area just at the bottom of the box ..short grass)

edit: add picture


-Jim

[punkd 0]

Also don't always rely on technology.. ive been setup in landing pattern before where my alti says 500ft but it looked alot more like 200 to me. technology can do weird shit sometimes.

Oh and if your wondering who I am, I was at your DZ with Chris not too long ago (doing some tracking jumps)

-Jim

[hackish 8]

To answer your question, yes arnprior. The wind was going from left to right. The uppers were so strong the spot was about 2 mi over the bridge (not in the picture). We were a little short on the first jump. The first 2 out the door were retrieved somewhere off the right side of the airport - I didn't see. The lower winds were more toward the background. I managed to make it down about 20m from the short grass with the building and airplanes to my back.

Too bad for crappy jumping conditions this weekend :( I like MH but the water scares me!

-Michael

[punkd 0]

MH is a good dropzone, yes watergear is mandatory. However im pretty sure they've never had an unintentional water landing there (could be wrong but I think I remember asking a while back)

Spotting is something you'll wanna keep an eye on and you'll pick it up better as you progress. Some times you get short sometimes you get long just the way it is.

The more you jump the better you will get at setting your pattern correctly for high winds. Can't say ive never grabbed on my fronts to get down a little quicker but never because of going backwards.

Hopefully the weather stays warm maybe we'll get a couple jumps in before the end of the season. Also me and Chris gonna make a couple trips to PST over the winter since they dont close if your interested.

[hackish 8]

I have a rare opportunity to travel down to Florida in December so I think I may book a few extra days and go try to find Deland... Maybe there will be a canopy course around that time... Unlikely but I'll check. Aside from that I may be up for a PST trip through the winter...

-Michael

[dharma1976 0]

when in december?
contact Scott Miller at http://www.freedomofflight.tv/

and see if he is around...

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[LoudDan 0]

If Scott is not available during the time you're there you should try to contact any of the FL based PD boys (Shannon, Ian, or Jay) through Flight-1. If you just happen to find yourself there with no plans ask for Majat (pronounced Ma Ha) at manifest and if he is unable to help you with what you need, he will certainly hook you up with someone who can.

If you find yourself down around Z-Hillz, ask for Tom Deleback (the younger one), Chuck Blue, or Jamie Kanupe.

If you're near Palatka, just go to manifest and tell them your story, ask for Scott Roberts if he is unavailable Fast Trax trains there and I'm sure they will get you hooked.

If in Tallahassee ask for Brian McNenny, he's a Fast Trax swooper and he flies camera there.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, PM me if you have questions, and I'll do my best to help you out. In the mean time work as hard and as often as you can on the basic skillz you have (altitude and traffic pattern awareness, executing the correct approach pattern, landing accuracy, etc.) perfecting the basic skills will go a long way for you in learning to be a high performance canopy pilot.

As with everything "advanced" no matter what the discipline, you have to start with a solid foundation in the basics. Luckily for you, after every skydive you have the opportunity to fly your canopy, work to master the basics and get quality coaching whenever you can.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[NeedToJump 0]

All the guys LoudDan listed are fantastic. To add to that, if you are in Sebastian ask for Lyle Presse.

Basically, it doesn't matter where in Florida you will be. All the big dropzones have well established canopy coaches who can help you.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[dharma1976 0]

plus marat will teach you how to whistle like a turbine when you go by :-P

I totally recommend any of those people

Damn I even have taken some coaching from some of them and can say that they have definitely helped me on my way to where I am today

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[rehmwa 2]

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I agree with rehmwa. .....

How about rather then attacking him, give him some good exercises to work on up high

I don't think it was an attack, I think the poster was kindly trying to point out that for "many people" it might work better to "Feel" the maneuver rather than figure it out explicitly. I was just pointing out that it's not a good idea to assume what style of learning hackish needs at this point. He might need to learn it by figuring out the details instead of the feel - (or vice versa).\

edit: the only comment that disturbed me was "sometimes it just doesn't add up on how it works" - it ALWAYS adds up when one understands it correctly and completely.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Pendragon 1]

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edit: the only comment that disturbed me was "sometimes it just doesn't add up on how it works" - it ALWAYS adds up when one understands it correctly and completely

Agree totally. It is worth pointing out that the right answer on how it works may be counter-intuitive to many at first, hence the need for coaching, which is the point (I hope) the original poster was trying to get to...

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[hackish 8]

I definitely want to whistle like a turbine! I did check out the page for Scott Miller. Nothing being offered around that time - only a course at the end of December. Closer to that date I will definitely call and inquire about canopy coaching - even if I can only get a few watched and debriefed by someone.

-Michael

[NeedToJump 0]

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I did check out the page for Steve Miller

It's Scott Miller, not Steve. Give him a call or send him an email. He does 1-on-1 canopy coaching. You don't need to wait for him to have a course scheduled.

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[Eagle7 0]

This is true. When I got my coach rating last year Scott Miller arranged a one on one canopy course the day before my coach class. I made one trip to Florida and learned a ton. He charges $155.00 for the canopy course and this INCLUDES 5 jumps, video of your landings, debrief and classroom training. He even spent time giving me tips on packing for free on the packing mat. This is a very good deal in skydiving. I contacted him two months before I came to Florida so he was able to arrange his schedule. Good luck and be safe.

[hackish 8]

That's a good idea. It cost you $155 and included some jumps? That sounds like an excellent deal! I'll see if there is anything available. Otherwise I'll see about some of the others who came recommended above.

-Michael