emergency dive recovery: level the canopy or not?

[pchapman 279]

I don't know what the current thinking is, so I'm wondering what the opinion is about what to do when teaching about emergency dive recovery, to prevent ground impact while in a turning dive.

The standard recommendation always seems to be to level the wing (canopy) first, to enhance the ability to pull out, by getting the lift vector working directly upwards instead of being angled and contributing less vertically.

I don't like that as the SOLE answer. While that could well be appropriate at slightly higher altitudes, at very low altitudes there might be too much time wasted in rolling wings level before starting the pull out.

I heard Brian Germain also isn't happy with the roll-level-first idea - more on that later.

Part of the problem is that people don't typically have practice in asymmetrical toggle flares from a turning dive. They might be able to turn quickly, or apply both brakes quickly, but trying to flare sharply while trying to level out at the same time just isn't practiced much.

In such cases, if the person is very low, it may be best to focus on first flaring hard, even if the canopy is still in a turning dive. Then the person can start applying some more outside brake to level the wing.

Ideally there would be both a flare and extra outside brake to level the wing, all at the same time.

Naturally if one brake is to be pulled down more than the other, one can't do a 100% flare first. One brake has to end up down further than the other, or at least lead the other brake as the toggles come down, even if both end up at 100% in the end.

The idea of flaring and turning at the same time is in some of those "downsizing checklists", things to become comfortable with on one's canopy before downsizing.

But (without checking them right now) I think the exercise is mostly designed as an avoidance maneuver, not a dive recovery maneuver.

The difference:
-- avoidance: start wings level, do a flared turn off to the side (and, whether the canopy stays banked or is re-levelled, the rate of descent has to be taken out to permit a soft landing)
-- dive recovery: start in a diving turn, do a flared turn to level out in roll and rate of descent

So even the turn & flare practice for avoidance maneuvers doesn't translate precisely into the skill needed for dive recovery.

As for Brian Germain, I recently read that he also likes the idea of not automatically trying to level the wing first. E.g., from his site:

[Quote]
Turning too low is the preliminary cause of many injuries in our sport. Unfortunately, most canopy pilots assume that bank angle must be eradicated before arresting the dive. This leads many to waste valuable altitude in the process of leveling the wing. In situations with very little altitude remaining, this may delay the collective brake application until it is too late. By rehearsing a transition to zero decent while still in a bank, the pilot becomes accustomed to applying the toggle on the outside of the turn as a learned instinct, reducing the chances of a turn leading to serious injury.


Also:
[Quote]
Arrest the dive as quickly as possible by sharply applying the opposite toggle as well as the inside toggle; the inside toggle is not applied until the two are matched in the degree of input. When the toggles are matched, a short stab of collective brake pressure is usually all that is needed to achieve level flight.


I am confused by his wording in that last paragraph. For example, what's the difference between "matched" and "collective brake pressure"? Both sound like they apply to brakes being at the same point.

Maybe it is just me, but his choice of words seems poor. Either way, I think his overall point is clear -- one should be able to both flare and turn at the same time.

I just think that if one isn't well practiced in doing so, one might not be able to accomplish that accurately and quickly. In such a case is better start with a quick flare (which one can do instinctively), and then add some turn.

[ianmdrennan 2]

You definitely have to get the wing above your head first before banking - if you try and arrest your descent rate while banking (not to be confused with banking without descending) you'll crater hard if you're in the 'too low' scenario.

Most people trying wingovers for the first time experience this and they're not even in an emergency - they attempt to bank the wing prematurely, causing themselves to sink while banking which, in turn, causes them to strike the pond - and hard.

Done correctly there can be minimal time loss from the time the wing is above your head to the time of heading change.

Quote

at very low altitudes there might be too much time wasted in rolling wings level before starting the pull out.

If you're that low, banking will result in a higher vertical speed at impact. The FIRST and most important thing to do is arrest descent as rapidly as possible. Continuing to turn, while flaring (in the scenario described) will do more damage than good.

IMO the ONLY time a banking component is applicable is if obstacles need to be avoided - and even then it should be as soon as you have arrested the descent enough to avoid impact with the ground.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Part of the problem is that people don't typically have practice in asymmetrical toggle flares from a turning dive. They might be able to turn quickly, or apply both brakes quickly, but trying to flare sharply while trying to level out at the same time just isn't practiced much.

If a jumper is only able to control one axis at a time, and cannot combine control inputs to fly the canopy through complex situations, then they have no business being in a turn or a dive close to the ground.

[AggieDave 6]

It all depends. Am I straightened out in my dive, am I bailing off an angle of a turn, am I having to turn to get into a tight area after bailing a turn?

If there's anything I've learned about swooping so far is that there are only a few hardfast rules (outside the obvious safety considerations). Other stuff depends on the situation.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[superstu 0]

Like Dave said, if someone is not able to properly use their control inputs to save themselves from a low turn they probably shouldn't be doing low turns (ie swoops).

With that being said, it would be hard to sell me on the idea of not getting my parachute over my head if i was too low to the ground. however, i think there are different ways to get your canopy over your head and that's where having the proper tools in your tool box along with experience comes in to play, this is what I think Brian Germain is talking about in those quotes you stated.

Quote

Unfortunately, most canopy pilots assume that bank angle must be eradicated before arresting the dive.

For example here, i don't think brian is stating that you must land with a bank angle, what he's saying is that if you are in a turn don't wait to complete the turn and come on heading before you start to save your life. start saving your life while you have the canopy banked and in a dive (ie flare your ass off).

Here's another possible example:
Let's say you do a 270 in a big landing area, but 180 degrees into it you find yourself too low. would you A) complete the turn and stab your toggles thereby getting the canopy over your head, or B) stop the dive/ turn immediately and start conducting a flat/braked turn and either land in your intended direction or in your "out" direction? these are two different options that both bring the canopy over the head, the only difference is when and how many options to save yourlife you give yourself. option A gives you one shot and even then it could be too late. option b gives you 2 shots plus you're higher when you make those desicions so you're safer, i call that the jackpot .

coming in at an angle with the canopy not completely over your head is dangerous and shouldn't be done, especially to save your life. i had a close call just before the 2nd PST event where i was going for a wingover and started banking the canopy too early and hit HARD. i mean i got whip lash in my neck and i thought i had seriously busted up my leg, and that was on water!

hopefully that made sense, but if not here's the short version: get that canopy over your head!

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[dharma1976 0]

I like to find the nearest pond and created a big splash

just kidding

I saw an interesting move the other day

toggles to dig out of corner to rears to toggles

I prefer to figure out I am low before I am low which gives me more options.

if its a save my life I usually go to toggles to level me out and then change direction if needed

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[Bolas 5]

I heard Sick Will say this:

Don't use your rears unless your approach is dialed in. Use them as a reward.

"Am I where I want to be? Yes? Okay, good boy. You can use your rears now." (Slightly Paraphrased)

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

I heard Sick Will say this:

Don't use your rears unless your approach is dialed in. Use them as a reward.

"Am I where I want to be? Yes? Okay, good boy. You can use your rears now." (Slightly Paraphrased)

That is entirely accurate.

[dharma1976 0]

so finishing turn on a shallower turn mechanism is flawed?

oh wow I am going to be low on this one I will stop turn and finish turn on rears...

I use this technique if I realize that I am low in the first 2/3 of my turn other wise it is and it seems to work for me

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[NewClearSports 0]

One little thing that might be causing a bit of confusion.

Is the turn / dive created with a toggle input or front riser input?

The differences ...

If the turn was created with a toggle and then suddenly you realize "Oh Crap" I'm too low, your imediate responce should be to pull down that other toggle - untill matched with the one you already have down and then continue pulling the two together to continue to dig out so not to impact and if you get to level flight - bonus.
- This senario would be 1st arresting the turn (And some dive too) then pulling out.


If the turn was created with front riser and you suddenly realize "Oh crap" im too low, you should imediatly release the risers and stab both toggles.
At which point you will then most likely still have to counter with opposite toggle to level your bank or stop your turn.
- This senario will most likely 1st arrest the dive or decent before stopping the turn.


These are also good points for practicing carving front riser turns instead of toggle turns.

[AiRpollUtiOn 0]

I don't plan on getting theoretical on this one.

I absolutely agree that a canopy straight above your head generates more lift due to more surface (the vector story)

However, we are talking about the situation where you find yourself coming out of a turn too low, getting the canopy above your head will cost time, thus costing you altitude, of which you don't have any to spare.

I'd say start flaring with the outside toggle and get the canopy over your head when possible, propably when your outside toggle is passing the level of the inside one. This way you immediately start doing something about your primary problem, being the ground approaching too fast.

I've had to dig out like this a couple of times, with a stiletto so pretty low.

Luckily I've slowly learned to start my turns high enough...

"Don't make me come down there" - God.

My site:http://www.skystudio.nl/video.html
Some of my vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/TomSkyStudio

[dorwardpaul 0]

or ... Flare hard like your life depends on it