Katana 170 - Scary?

[Scooter1812 0]

I have been flying an old Sabre 170 and just bought a Katana 170. After reading all the postings about "how it falls outa the sky" I'm getting a little concerned. I'll be loading it at 1.35 and I can't see myself doing hook turns at 44. I just want a fun zippy canopy.

Can this beast be flow straight in and get a good landing?

I should be getting it in a few days............

[AggieDave 6]

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Can this beast be flow straight in and get a good landing?

Yes. Easily, especially at your jump numbers and wingloading.

Get ready for saweeet openings and a canopy that is an absolute blast to fly.

Then again, even the Velo 111 I jump loaded at just a hair under 2.6:1 comes straight in and lands great without swooping it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[davelepka 4]

It will be a step in a different direction. The canopy is trimmed much steeper than a Sabre, and will require some input (brakes or rear risers) to get the same glide as a Sabre.

Also, it will dump much more altitude in a turn than a Sabre. Much more.

The problem is when the two factors come together. If you're not on top of the canopy, you'll get back to the DZ lower than you're used to. At that point, the canopy will need more altitude to get it turned into the wind. It doesn't add up to a good situation.

Just be aware, and plan on 'flying' the canopy, as opposed to your Sabre, where you could just hang under it and let it go. Float home on every jump, so you arrive at the DZ with more altitude than you're used to.

Also, be sure to do a few flat turns with it at altitude, just to see how it goes. You stand a better chance of needing this skill with the Katana than the Sabre.

All of these things are just differences between the two. There's nothing wrong with the Katana, it's just different.

[agent_lead 0]

i also have a katana 170 and i land it straight in every jump..i came from a safire 189 so its almost the same as your switch...it is quite ground hungry and you should not expect the same glide as the sabre2 even on rears/toggles..my katana on rears is comparable to my safire in full flight..

great fucking canopy and a helluva lotta fun to fly..just be aware that you have to actively fly it...you cant just float around with it like the sabre..you need to give her lots of attention..

i had to raise up my pattern altitudes by about 600 feet since it sinks alot faster then what i was used to..and loses more alti on turns..

good luck with it and im sure you will fall in love with it fast..

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[Scooter1812 0]

Thanks for the info, I feel better about buying it now. Just one last question though. How much quicker are the toggle turns??

My Sabre 170 isn't all that fast......

Last question: On straight in front risers what kind of distance do you think I could get (no wind) and remember it's a 170.

[agent_lead 0]

the toggle turns are gonna be snappy as hell compared to the sabre...they are quite fast and you will lose alot of altitude...

i use double fronts on every final...i dont get much distance on the surf..maybe 30 feet or so..still fun as hell

im taking a canopy course with jeffro in 3 weeks and i plan on doing my first 90's under his guidance...hopefully that works out well!

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[davelepka 4]

I'm not sure about the turn rate. It will be quicker than the Sabre, but again, it's all in how you fly it. I'm sure that just shy of inducing line twists, it will be turning fast enough to keep your attention.

As far as double fronts, I would shy away from that at first. The trim is so much steeper that full flight will be about as fast as your Sabre after you give it the double fronts. I'd suggest starting out flying your pattern in 1/4 to 1/2 brakes to better mactch other traffic. Once on final, let it fly, and just come in at full flight. You should get a nice swoop just based on a steady full flight apporach.

Once you are comfortable with that, experiment at altitude with the double fronts at altitude to see what kind of height you need to safely add the fronts on final approach. This will also be much different than your Sabre.

I think the basic idea is to recognize that this is not your Sabre, and the things you've mastered with your Sabre you'll need to re-learn on the Katana. Your current skills will help you learn quickly, and it may only take five or ten jumps to make the transition, but there is a transition, and you need to recognize and respect that.

[Scooter1812 0]

Sound like great advice thanks !!!

[kmfreefly 0]

Also pay a lot of attention to body position when deploying. Sabres are very forgiving while the Katana will do exactly what you tell it to do.

Just do a nice gentle throw, look to the horizon, keep hips square to the relative wind, and enjoy the next few seconds of sniveley goodness!

Karl Bob

[jumper03 0]

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I'm not sure about the turn rate. It will be quicker than the Sabre, but again, it's all in how you fly it. I'm sure that just shy of inducing line twists, it will be turning fast enough to keep your attention.

everyone keeps saying snappy turns. Can anyone compare the katana toggle turn rate to that of the diablo?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[AggieDave 6]

The Diablo smokes it, but the Katana screams out of the sky when doing a similar turn.

I really don't think there's anything out there that will turn quite like a Diablo.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skyshimas 0]

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The Diablo smokes it, but the Katana screams out of the sky when doing a similar turn.

I really don't think there's anything out there that will turn quite like a Diablo.

I don't understand why toggle turn rate is so important? I would think that riser turns and their preassure is much more important on high performance canopies. Also I would think that any hp canopy will have a quick reaction to toggle imputs.
What is toggles anyway can you fly with them?

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The Diablo smokes it, but the Katana screams out of the sky when doing a similar turn.

I really don't think there's anything out there that will turn quite like a Diablo.

I don't understand why toggle turn rate is so important?

High turn rates and sensitive controls make canopies more fun to fly. I didn't think the FX 104 or Crossfire 109 were as much fun as my Stiletto 120.

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Also I would think that any hp canopy will have a quick reaction to toggle imputs.

Compared to square canopies they do.

Compared to each other they often don't, although this can be a good thing. Shapes that are pleasant to fly at 1.8 pounds/square foot and 120 square feet are more likely to be too much at 2.4 pounds/square foot and 90 square feet.

[AggieDave 6]

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I don't understand why toggle turn rate is so important? I would think that riser turns and their preassure is much more important on high performance canopies.

Its all about what you want out of your canopy. Personally I want bomber swoops and the rate of turn on the toggles doesn't effect my decision all that much. Although, it is fun to rip on a toggle and fly around.

Some folks don't care about the riser pressure at all or how it builds past 90 degrees, but they want some really rapid and aggressive toggle control.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[dharma1976 0]

fuck toggle turns...how much altitude does it lose on harness

D

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[skyshimas 0]

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I don't understand why toggle turn rate is so important? I would think that riser turns and their preassure is much more important on high performance canopies.

Its all about what you want out of your canopy. Personally I want bomber swoops and the rate of turn on the toggles doesn't effect my decision all that much. Although, it is fun to rip on a toggle and fly around.

Some folks don't care about the riser pressure at all or how it builds past 90 degrees, but they want some really rapid and aggressive toggle control.

same here I don't care about toggle turn rate at all and i don't whip my toggles at all it is much more fun for me to use rare risers with harness if I want to do some quick turns- which I am not a great fan of either and do it very rearly. I quess it comes again: different people like different stuff.

[Scooter1812 0]

Well I've put 9 jumps on the Katana 170 and I was a little shocked at the lack of difference between my old Sabre and it. Ya it turns a bit faster and has a greater forward speed but not that much! I wish now that I had bought a smaller canopy.

Don't get me wrong it's a nice canopy but when I jumped my Sabre 170 and then the Katana 170 back to back, I think the Sabre is slightly more ground hungry.

[vdschoor 0]

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Well I've put 9 jumps on the Katana 170 and I was a little shocked at the lack of difference between my old Sabre and it. Ya it turns a bit faster and has a greater forward speed but not that much! I wish now that I had bought a smaller canopy.

Looking at the history of this thread, and your feedback.. I'd recommend a Stiletto over the Katana for what you want.
The Stiletto will spin circles around a Katana on toggles..