RDS Options for the JVX

[rhys 0]

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Just re-read my replies from almost two years ago... nothing really changed in my mind, except after all this time and several linesets later, i now strongly believe that those thin rings (Paraconcepts 2nd and 3rd gen) DO wear out lines quicker than the 1st Gen PC rings (thick ones are much smoother on the lines). I think the 3rd gen rings are also softer and get dinged up easier. i had one set replaced. That maybe even caused by lines, the pattern of dings would suggest that. Be awareof shorter life span on lines with these things. I actually started using stock JVX slider this year, after 5 or 6 linesets gave up on me - all with less than 350-400 jumps

These rings are aluminium, they are softer.

350-400 jumps is what you would expect out of HMA350 Pd only recommends 100-120 jumps on thier HMA300. how much do you expect to get out of them?

I'll keep an eye on the wear and tear, I have to replace my lineset now but I have done at least 400 jumps on them, this is what i expect out of them, but only 150 or so have been with my new PC slider.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[frost 1]

I am not sure if they are aluminum... Some type of an alloy, definitely softer than stainless steel, which is what's recommended for these thin lines. Otherwise the lines will just grind right through a softer ring. I've had that happen to brass rings with an HMA lineset 4 or 5 years ago (you could look for my thread in Gear and Rigging somewhere for pics)

As far as expectations of longevity... We can forget using PD's 300 for comparison here - those are in the league of their own, dont last long at all and are of no use to an everyday jumper. For our HMA350s, some very knowledgeable people have claimed up to 800 jumps from these UV coated lines (and isn't that a partial reason why NZ no longer supplies a second lineset?). Even if 800 jumps is a stretch, I dont think 500-600 is unreasonable for us to expect "IF" you dont use an RDS, dont put the lines through the abuse of competitions and take good care of them in general.

With 4 to 7 comps per year for the last 3 years i have not been able to get more than 350 jumps out of my HMA350 lines, coated or not. Thats why i started jumping stock slider lately, just to extend the life and save money. I put the RDS back on when i compete.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Even if 800 jumps is a stretch, I dont think 500-600 is unreasonable for us to expect "IF" you dont use an RDS, dont put the lines through the abuse of competitions and take good care of them in general.

I do. 500-600 is very unreasonable to expect of 350hma - yes, even the 'blue stuff' (which I have a few hundred jumps on myself).

I'd strongly caution against going anywhere near that high. If cost is such a factor, I recommend the thicker 500hma lines.

Basically - the pilot needs to make good choices within their budget. If you can't afford the maintenance, then another option is better.

Remember, lines can break during, or after a turn. Just because they didn't on opening, doesn't mean they're not going to at some point during the jump. The risk is ABSOLUTELY not worth it.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[AggieDave 6]

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Remember, lines can break during, or after a turn. Just because they didn't on opening, doesn't mean they're not going to at some point during the jump. The risk is ABSOLUTELY not worth it.

I wonder how many people who will say that the above is BS know Marat?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[superstu 0]

i agree with ian on the 500-600 jumps being too many jumps. i've seen nick batch break multiple lines many times with less jumps than that on those blue ones

Slip Stream Air Sports
Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down

[masterrigger1 2]

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I am not sure if they are aluminum... Some type of an alloy, definitely softer than stainless steel, which is what's recommended for these thin lines. Otherwise the lines will just grind right through a softer ring. I've had that happen to brass rings with an HMA lineset 4 or 5 years ago (you could look for my thread in Gear and Rigging somewhere for pics)

Mike,
There are other variables as well. Most of the "new" rings are too light, the coating wears off. The result leaves a sharp transition were the coating and base metal begin and end.

The light rings will flutter which makes this even worse.

See rigging 1 004 photo.

These lines only had about 50 jumps on them since new. This was 50 jumps on both a new canopy and new rds with light weight rings.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[masterrigger1 2]

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As far as expectations of longevity... We can forget using PD's 300 for comparison here - those are in the league of their own, dont last long at all and are of no use to an everyday jumper.

You Betcha!

I have a quiz for you guys.

Which line in the photo is PD "300" ?

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[masterrigger1 2]

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I do. 500-600 is very unreasonable to expect of 350hma - yes, even the 'blue stuff' (which I have a few hundred jumps on myself).

I'd strongly caution against going anywhere near that high. If cost is such a factor, I recommend the thicker 500hma lines.

Basically - the pilot needs to make good choices within their budget. If you can't afford the maintenance, then another option is better.

Remember, lines can break during, or after a turn. Just because they didn't on opening, doesn't mean they're not going to at some point during the jump. The risk is ABSOLUTELY not worth it.

Ian,
The pilot needs to educate himself with Technora line wear problems and their specific areas of interest.

Then be dedicated to changing the lines when needed.
Just like Mike stated, jump numbers will be different for everyone.

Also, These lines are not always broken. they are sometimes cut by improper packing and tension knots. The doubling of the rubber bands are usually the culprit.

See the attached photos.
This was a brand new line set. The guy had a bag lock that finally cleared, resulting in a one line tension knot that cut throough all of these lines including one 525lb Dacron lower control line.


If you want to make your lines last longer, simply install 1" elastic stow loops down the center (two sides) of the DBag and use a packing hook to stow them.

The lines will last a whole lot longer AND you will have cleaner deployments.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[frost 1]

I've been through close to 10 HMA350 linesets, have broken many lines with 300-350 jumps, have replaced lines that looked iffy at less than 300.... i am not expecting to get more than those numbers with my usage - but that's competitions, RDS slider, heavier loads... Sand is not good for any type of line and Nick's lines has seen more sand than Ian's vagina, so i would not use him as an example of line longevity. Nor would i use Marat or anyone else who jumps 300.

But for someone who doesnt put the canopy through abuse of competitions, who jumps a stock slider with lighter wingloadings (2-2.2) AND takes good care of his lines i think 500 jumps out of HMA350s is not an unreasonable number.

As far as common sense, checking your gear for wear and tear and properly maintaining it... well that just slows you down and stops you from achieving your maximum potential. I strongly recommend against that.

[frost 1]

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The doubling of the rubber bands are usually the culprit.
...
If you want to make your lines last longer, simply install 1" elastic stow loops down the center (two sides) of the DBag and use a packing hook to stow them

Thats good to know! i always hated short rubber bands and preferred double stowing... might have to change my habits and start using 1" stows.

Do you have a pic of what you mean about the d-bag?

P.S. Maybe we should have this in a separate thread, "Extending your HMA lines life span" or something... some good info may come out of this discussion that would be useful in the future.

[masterrigger1 2]

Mike,
If you start the thread I will add to it. I just do not have the time today....gotta work!
and yes I will post a picture of the DBag.

Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[frost 1]

On my rings i saw what appeared to be longer grooved dents, as if from heavy friction on the thin line... But I see what you mean Mark, that picture of an HMA line with 50 jumps is much too familiar.

[ianmdrennan 2]

See Mel, and Mike,

The problem is that I've seen more than 1 jumper recklessly jumping the blue lines because of the "some guy got 800 jumps out of his" nonsense.

We chastise jumpers for poor downsizing decisions. Poor gear maintenance decisions should be no different.

The reality is, that on average, no-one is getting 400+ jumps out of those lines.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[frost 1]

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The problem is that I've seen more than 1 juper recklessly jumping the blue lines because of the "some guy got 800 jumps out of his" nonsense.

We chastise jumpers for poor downsizing decisions. Poor gear maintenance decisions should be no different.

What you're seeing is Progress. Dont be an anchor, trying to slow it down, keeping young talented pilots from reaching their full potential! Unless by "chastise" you mean "praise" and by "poor" you mean "progressive".

For those reading this that dont personally know me - i am just kidding. Listen to Ian, he is wise beyond his ears.

[masterrigger1 2]

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The problem is that I've seen more than 1 juper recklessly jumping the blue lines because of the "some guy got 800 jumps out of his" nonsense.

We chastise jumpers for poor downsizing decisions. Poor gear maintenance decisions should be no different.

Ian,
That is exactly why I wrote the first two sentences in my reply to you!

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The reality is, that on average, no-one is getting 400+ jumps out of those lines.

...and the same goes for the 3rd sentence!
The jump numbers will be different for every jumper.

If you take care of these or any other lines, they will last longer than if you do not. That is the reality.

Back to the point, the small RDS rings cause excessive line wear.

So if you use them, be prepared to change line sets frequently.


Cheers,
MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[mmm_peanuts 0]

My rings with 50~75 jumps with vectran are forming small ruts in the higher wear areas... Nothing sharp, but they're there.

[rhys 0]

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See rigging 1 004 photo.

These lines only had about 50 jumps on them since new. This was 50 jumps on both a new canopy and new rds with light weight rings

My lines have 400 or so jumps well over 100 with the new light weight rings and they are not nearly as bad as those lines.

I woud be livid if my lines looked like that after 50 jumps. I have had 3 sets of blue technora and it has taken hundreds of jumps for them to get to that condition.

I'll be interested to know how long the new Orange PD lines will last for, and what they might do to the rings over time...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Also, These lines are not always broken. they are sometimes cut by improper packing and tension knots. The doubling of the rubber bands are usually the culprit.

See the attached photos.
This was a brand new line set. The guy had a bag lock that finally cleared, resulting in a one line tension knot that cut throough all of these lines including one 525lb Dacron lower control line.

nasty!

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If you want to make your lines last longer, simply install 1" elastic stow loops down the center (two sides) of the DBag and use a packing hook to stow them.

The lines will last a whole lot longer AND you will have cleaner deployments.

or you could get D bag that uses no runbber bands. I am getting a magnetic d bag (Mag bag) from an australian rigger that I know, his product is now tested enough (by others) for me to be happy to purchase one. gtjey are happy, i can't wait.

Good riddance rubber bands!!!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[hparrish 0]

I'd like to see a new thread on these "Mag Bags", you are talking about. With Pictures

[rhys 0]

have seen one or two of them,but i dont have one yet so i can't post any pictures.

there s a guy in belgium that makes them also, i believe he is the one that invented them, I have seen both the belgium and australian ones.

anyone out there got one to show us?

i'll get one soon, and take photos, might be a month or two though...

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[dharma1976 0]

I got to see one a lot when I was in eloy last year totally sickle

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[gq108100 0]

Hello,

I'm the "guy from Belgium" that invented and makes the magnetic bags. I called them "mPOD" (short for magnetic POD). You can find the required info,

http://www.pgasus.be

I'll open a new threat on the mPOD in the rigging forum...

Aliquando et insanire jucundum est

[lilchief 1]

[reply
I'll open a new threat on the mPOD in the rigging forum...




oh-oh...not a new THREAT! YKES!

A new thread, however, is much more nicer =D

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[gq108100 0]

Sorry about the "lapsus"...Tought my English was better, but apparently not...

Aliquando et insanire jucundum est

[koppel 4]

We an RDS using standard grommets set in webbing that has proven to be very acceptable to the lines.

I use vectran 300 on my vx84 & 88. I have no issues with the lines lasting but I have not taken them past 350 jumps MAX. basically I work on the rule of thumb of 1 jump per pound.

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.