Canopy Pilots: What is your procedure right after main deployment?
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CrazyL 0
thanks for your input. Similar to many others you loosen the chest strap and lastly unstow the brakes. So far so good right? No issue doing it that way right?
piahenzi 0
same here... slider just easier to deal with /stow when the risers are still "pinched". loosen chest strap ( ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!) and then release brakes no lower than 2K for controllability check.
However, for rem slider I can see the first two changing position.,, I have on occasion had to deal with a popped toggle (oh, so much fun!!) and then the slider just stays up.. I don't fight it over unstowed toggles (no velcro on mine)... so I land looking like a rookie.. beats having the grommet stuck over a toggle and dealing with that issue..there's always next time 
fab777 0
I voted 1-, but since I transitionned from the Xfire to the velo, it's more like:
1-Congratulate myself for having an open and flying canopy, then
2-vote 1.
Fabien
BASE#944
1-Congratulate myself for having an open and flying canopy, then
2-vote 1.
Fabien
BASE#944
piahenzi 0
LOL!! That's how I felt under the Katana. Getting more comfortable with her now....and I have the packing down for her now.... I'm sure once the Velo becomes the canopy of choice, I'll be right there with you !!
dploi 0
No CRW, in the traditional sense, as I'm on HP canopies. But plentry of high pulls.QuoteAgree about the toggles except the rare freestyle exception. Do CRW? downplanes? 4 stack? dragplane? twist 180 under canopy while docked on the bottom of a crw stack? pull high above 8,000ft.? cross country?
Correct. Not a fan of velcro on anything anywhere on my rig, though.QuoteIf when you pull down the slider a brake fires, i'd bet you have velcroless toggles. Mine were changed back to velcro toggles on my rigs to alleviate that scenario and then some.
Right, but it's a must for swooping to get the canopy flying like it should. Different strokes for different folks. Good insight from the CRW perspective. Thanks for that!QuoteLoosening the chest strap is questionable now in my mind.
I have had no problems yet doing it this way!
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone!
I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!
I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!
Priority #1 - Traffic, Altitude & Position
Then Slider, chest strap and then toggles...
But following the earlier post about a possible reserve ride with a slack chest strap I'll change the order and do the chest strap last (I'll try this out tromorrow)
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Then Slider, chest strap and then toggles...
But following the earlier post about a possible reserve ride with a slack chest strap I'll change the order and do the chest strap last (I'll try this out tromorrow)
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
dploi 0
I've thought about that, but have never seen it as an issue. On hop and pops, I usually leave with my chest strap already fairly slack and haven't really been able to envision a scenario, based on how my rig feels on my body, where it'd come off. To each their own.QuotePriority #1 - Traffic, Altitude & Position
Then Slider, chest strap and then toggles...
But following the earlier post about a possible reserve ride with a slack chest strap I'll change the order and do the chest strap last (I'll try this out tromorrow)
CrazyL 0
I have been conducting tests to see what it takes to pull the reserve handle with a loosened chest strap, soft pillow and D ring. Several factors are involved to get the 'perfect storm' type of scenario from what appears to be a simple mal to deal with.
I havn't had to do it yet, but I leave enough excess on the chest strap so that I can grab it and pull it tight....
thusly the two 1/2 foot long chest strap
Dave
thusly the two 1/2 foot long chest strap
Dave
http://www.skyjunky.com
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.
CrazyL 0
I thinl it's a good thing you leave a length of chest strap to grab and retighten. There are 2 scenarios that you are more prepared for 1 of them you'd better be fast and correct. What scenario would you need/want to retighten your chest strap?
1.) Check main landing area to be sure I have a large enough audience.
2.) Spiral down to 700ft.
3.) Hook.
2.) Spiral down to 700ft.
3.) Hook.
QuoteAmong the other things you do, for this poll i'm mostly concerned with the order which you deal with each component listed. If there is another order please list.
See conclusion from :Fatality-Elsinore June 21, 2008
Quote1) Because the chest strap had been fully extended, the main lift webs were separated causing the emergency handles to be in different locations, further out to the sides and to the back.
Chest strap vs. releasing breaks is a rather interesting compromise.
QuoteChest strap vs. releasing breaks is a rather interesting compromise.
This was talked about extensively here:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3189821;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
I was very surprised to find how many very experienced skydivers loosen their chest straps before popping the toggles. Although several argued vehemently none offered any logical reason for doing so.
QuoteI was very surprised to find how many very experienced skydivers loosen their chest straps before popping the toggles. Although several argued vehemently none offered any logical reason for doing so.
Toggle keepers with velcro are not popular anymore so if you popped your toggles you don;t want them go for a single moment.
CrazyL 0
THE REASON FOR THIS POLL : the answer lies in the post above. Go to the incidents forum , Lake Elsinore fatality. Read on sky brothers and sky sisters, take a good hard look. Read it. Just what will we do. I caught a wave today. I caused a wave last week, feel the ripple? Gimme feed back once you've read the thread.QuoteAmong the other things you do, for this poll i'm mostly concerned with the order which you deal with each component listed. If there is another order please list.
QuoteI was very surprised to find how many very experienced skydivers loosen their chest straps before popping the toggles. Although several argued vehemently none offered any logical reason for doing so.
When I was flying a bigger canopy I could release the toggles and undo my chest strap while holding the toggles and the canopy remained stable enough for me to do it. At the wingloading Im at now I cant do it because any small movement with the toggles can make the canopy dive or spin. So I have actually changed my order from slider, toggles, cheststrap to slider, cheststrap, toggles. The reason is I dont have velcro to stow the toggles and I hate grabbing around for them so once I grab and unstow the toggles I dont like to let go of them.
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone!
I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!
I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!
I've been following this thread, and the other nine threads about exactly this same thing.
The issue has boiled down to how and when to unstow your brakes, and what to do with your chest strap as it applies to that situation.
I think one thing that's being looked over in all these threads is the root cause for the incident at Elsinore. For the purpose of this discussion, we'll assume that the 'official' report is correct, and it was a half-hitch of a steering line around a guide ring, leading to a cutaway, and a no-pull due to harness placement, and possible camera wing interference.
All the talk about chest straps and when to unstow toggles has not addressed the half-hitch around the guide ring. If you look in the similar thread in the camera forum, before the report on the incident was out, I gave my reply, and I do indicate that I unstow my toggles last.
One thing to keep in mind is that well I do unstow them last, it happens within 10 or 15 seconds of my slider coming down, regardless of how high I open. The idea that anyone would leave their toggles stowed any longer than they have to is retarded. If you're so lazy or weak that you need to leave them stowed to get you back from a long spot, maybe skydiving isn't for you.
Back to my procedures under canopy, what you'll notice is that on two occasion I inspect my toggles and excess steering line. Once before and during pulling my slider past my toggles. It's a tight fit, any problems with my toggles would make it much harder, and a real possibility for the slider to get stuck around the toggles.
Fast forward 15 seconds, and I'm ready to unstow my brakes, I do another inspection, ensure that my excess steering line is free and clear, and carefully unstow my brakes.
Both inspections, and actually unstowing them are not fast processes. This is the biggest change in configuration my canopy will experience, and once it's done, there's no going back. As such, I am careful, and take my time to ensure that all things are in order.
As far as the incident in Elsinore goes, I cannot see how a steering line can half hitch around the guide ring unless the excess was stowed in a sloppy manner, allowing a loop of the excess to interfere with the guide ring. Even then it seems unlikely as the nose of the toggle should pin the guide ring down underneath it, preventing anything from looping over it.
While I respect your message about unstowing toggles and chest strap placement under canopy, I think poeple need to put more focus on preventing the cutaway in the first place, and take care when stowing their toggles and excess steering line. It may seem like a trivial issue, but this incident has proven that even a seemingly small problem can easliy develop into a big problem.
We all know that shit happens. The key in skydiving is to do everything you can to make sure that when shit happens to you, it's the only thing happening to you, and you're free to take care of whatever it may be. Any additional problems you may have when shit does happen to you will just team up with the shit, and form the first few links of the chain of events leading to an incident.
Slow down out there, and really think about everything you do, and how and why you do it that way.
The issue has boiled down to how and when to unstow your brakes, and what to do with your chest strap as it applies to that situation.
I think one thing that's being looked over in all these threads is the root cause for the incident at Elsinore. For the purpose of this discussion, we'll assume that the 'official' report is correct, and it was a half-hitch of a steering line around a guide ring, leading to a cutaway, and a no-pull due to harness placement, and possible camera wing interference.
All the talk about chest straps and when to unstow toggles has not addressed the half-hitch around the guide ring. If you look in the similar thread in the camera forum, before the report on the incident was out, I gave my reply, and I do indicate that I unstow my toggles last.
One thing to keep in mind is that well I do unstow them last, it happens within 10 or 15 seconds of my slider coming down, regardless of how high I open. The idea that anyone would leave their toggles stowed any longer than they have to is retarded. If you're so lazy or weak that you need to leave them stowed to get you back from a long spot, maybe skydiving isn't for you.
Back to my procedures under canopy, what you'll notice is that on two occasion I inspect my toggles and excess steering line. Once before and during pulling my slider past my toggles. It's a tight fit, any problems with my toggles would make it much harder, and a real possibility for the slider to get stuck around the toggles.
Fast forward 15 seconds, and I'm ready to unstow my brakes, I do another inspection, ensure that my excess steering line is free and clear, and carefully unstow my brakes.
Both inspections, and actually unstowing them are not fast processes. This is the biggest change in configuration my canopy will experience, and once it's done, there's no going back. As such, I am careful, and take my time to ensure that all things are in order.
As far as the incident in Elsinore goes, I cannot see how a steering line can half hitch around the guide ring unless the excess was stowed in a sloppy manner, allowing a loop of the excess to interfere with the guide ring. Even then it seems unlikely as the nose of the toggle should pin the guide ring down underneath it, preventing anything from looping over it.
While I respect your message about unstowing toggles and chest strap placement under canopy, I think poeple need to put more focus on preventing the cutaway in the first place, and take care when stowing their toggles and excess steering line. It may seem like a trivial issue, but this incident has proven that even a seemingly small problem can easliy develop into a big problem.
We all know that shit happens. The key in skydiving is to do everything you can to make sure that when shit happens to you, it's the only thing happening to you, and you're free to take care of whatever it may be. Any additional problems you may have when shit does happen to you will just team up with the shit, and form the first few links of the chain of events leading to an incident.
Slow down out there, and really think about everything you do, and how and why you do it that way.
QuoteI was very surprised to find how many very experienced skydivers loosen their chest straps before popping the toggles. Although several argued vehemently I chose not to listen to any
none offered anylogical reason for doing so.
Fixed it for ya
Performance Designs Factory Team
jacketsdb23 49
QuoteQuoteI was very surprised to find how many very experienced skydivers loosen their chest straps before popping the toggles. Although several argued vehemently I chose not to listen to any
none offered anylogical reason for doing so.
Fixed it for ya
Ian, I don't know you...but I respect what you say on this site. Honestly though, I'm lost as to the "logical" reasons to loosen the chest strap before a full canopy "control" check, which includes unstowing the toggles.
If you or anyone is flying a canopy that doesn't allow the chest strap to be loosened after the toggles are unstowed, then its your decision to take the extra risks associated with loosening the chest strap first. I think is misguided to extend your canopy procedures to the skydiving community as a whole. There is a very small percentage of skydivers, or canopy pilots, that need the type of performance advantage of loosening the chest strap. The risk is simply not worth the reward for 90% (for lack of a better number) of skydivers.
There is no reason that popping the brakes and doing a control check before loosening the chest strap should be the accepted and "taught" procedure.
I'm very good at listening. I very much welcome opposing views.
Marcel
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.
stow slider, loosen chest strap, release brakes
I like to start my day off with a little Ray of Soulshine™!!
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