gus 1 #1 January 6, 2003 I've just changed my container from a Parachutes de France Atom Classic to a slightly smaller Thomas Sports Teardrop SF. I've only put 7 jumps on the SF and I've already had 2 brake fires resulting in 'interesting' diving twists, 1 off landing and people on the ground shouting at me to chop my lovely Spectre . They are the first brake fires I've had in my 400 jumps. The container itself is great but a few people have suggested to me there's a design fault with the Thomas Sports risers - does anyone have any experience with modding the risers with press-studs or something else? Second question: Can I just buy a set of risers/toggles from somewhere (Relative Workshop trulok toggles?) and swap them onto my container, is it that simple? Thanks, GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #2 January 6, 2003 >The container itself is great but a few people have suggested >to me there's a design fault with the Thomas Sports risers I have no experience with TSE gear, but I'm pretty sure it's easier to get a new set of risers than to start modding the old ones. Are you sure you're setting the brakes right? >Second question: Can I just buy a set of risers/toggles from >somewhere (Relative Workshop trulok toggles?) and swap >them onto my container, is it that simple? Most of the time, yes. Order the risers and the toggles from the same place to make sure they're compatible. It's also a good idea to make sure the new risers are the same length as the originals, to ensure proper fit in the container. And of course the new risers should have the same size 3-rings as the originals. And as usual with all things gear: consult your local rigger before doing anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #3 January 6, 2003 Changing parts may not solve the problem if you don't know why it's happening. Assuming that the current system is working as intended and in good shape, it may be a compatibility problem. A customer of mine this year had his first reserve ride ever, after 1200 jumps, because of a brake releasing. (It got worse from there.) The problem was that he added soft links to risers that didn't have toggle nose keepers or hoods. The slider was able to come down fast enough over the soft links to dislodge the toggle. Risers with soft links should have toggle hoods. These are little pockets for the nose to go into after the brake is set. I'm not familiar with recent Thomas equipment, but check out your assembly and see if this is the cause. It can be fixed by changing links to stop the slider, or by installing toggle hoods. If this isn't it, try to figure out whats going wrong before spending $100 plus on risers. Other riser may be able to be used. But length, width, and ring brand/style should be the same. The geometry of the three ring may vary depending on the ring set used. So.. it may be that simple or it may not be. TerryI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #4 January 6, 2003 Gus, give Chris Thomas a call, his number should be somewhere in the BPA mag, under Thomas Sports Equipment. Seeing as he designs and manufactures these things, he's probably the most qualified to advise you of solutions and causes to your current heartache. It will be handy if you had the serial number of your Superfly handy when you call him up. Any rigger should be able to modify your risers, as you don't say what type they are (velcro, vs non velcro) I am assuming they are non velcro ones. The mod described by others as 'fitting elastic hoods' is a really minor mod, and well worth it. I would shy away from fitting press studs, poking holes in your risers to accommodate them is likely to give you the willies......if you see what I mean, not to mention the danger of trapping a brake line in a flexed/poorly fitted snap fastener.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #5 January 7, 2003 Good point about the dangers of press-studs. I called Chris Thomas and (obviously without seeing the rig) he suggested that the elastic hoods might need replacing - he could be right but they don't really look very worn. I jump Birdman so I'm very keen to avoid brake fires, I'll post back with what action I take. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #6 January 7, 2003 Good stuff, let us know how you get on, I've always found Chris to be quite helpful. Do you use soft links? It might be a good idea to change to hard links with 'big' polythene bumpers. I've had a few brake fires on my spectre (loaded at around 1.6 ish----plus recent turkey weight) on relatively new sunpath risers....but not too much drama...-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meridianjumper 0 #7 January 7, 2003 I am sorry to ask this, but what exactly is a "brake fire"? -Jeremy Blue Skies, Jeremy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 January 7, 2003 Popping of one or both brakes before the jumper reaches for a toggle. Usually the slider pops a brake on opening.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #9 January 7, 2003 In my case the top of the toggle popped out of its elastic hood (the toggle remained stowed on the riser), allowing the brake line to release, putting a couple of twists into the canopy as it deployed and putting the whole twisted mess into a nice spiral! GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rapper4mpi 0 #10 January 7, 2003 First, when you order new risers, they always come with toggles. Secondly, do you have soft links? If so this is probably while you are having these toggle fires. Relative Workshop makes the best risers on the market and their Trulock design in supperior. Consult them before you put anything in your container and of course, consult your rigger as well. -Rap D-21553 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #11 February 26, 2003 I gave my Spectre to my rigger to try and fix these brake fires and got it back on Saturday. The loop in the brake line where the top of the toggle goes through is now really tight. I didn't think it was loose before he took it but compared to how it is now, it was. He also replaced the elastic hoods that house the top of the toggle and the retaining elastic that actually attaches the toggle to the riser. It looks really good and secure, I didn't have any problems over the weekend and I don't anticipate having any more. He claims to have done the same thing for several other people so if you're having brake fires consider getting that loop in the brake line tightened right up. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpanter 0 #12 February 27, 2003 I just assembled a new Javlin for a customer and they (Sunpath) have changed from elastic toggle keepers to reenforcing tape. They are stiffer and look like they will last longer. Also soft bumpers or "hoods" are not needed for soft links, you should not cover them so they can be inspected at every repack. They are stronger than rapid links but need to be inspected often for wear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markbaur 0 #13 February 27, 2003 Quotethe top of the toggle popped out of its elastic hood (the toggle remained stowed on the riser), allowing the brake line to release Make sure you have set your brakes correctly. To set the brake, pull the brake line down until the cat-eye is below the guide ring. Put the top of the toggle through the cat-eye, then put the top of the toggle into the elastic hood. If you put the top of the toggle through the cat-eye without pulling the cat-eye through the guide ring, the elastic hood will take the opening load, and the brake will frequently release. Also, if you put the top of the toggle through the guide ring, your brake will sometimes release. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #15 March 3, 2003 Thanks for the heads-up, I hadn't thought of that. I'll have a look at home tonight. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #16 March 3, 2003 Hi Gus, Marcus had exactly the same problem with his TSE risers. John Curtis has modified them (I think)http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
