michaelqld 0 #1 April 28, 2009 I am doing a presentation on AADs and vertical speeds during high performance landings to a large group of instructors and chief instructors. I would like to include some reliable incident data. I know about the fatality in netherlands in 2005 JT had a fire in France in 2006(?) I found a thread called "Non-Injury Swoop Cypres Fire " by towerrat, October 2007, no location Any others you know about? Can you point me to any threads/info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #2 April 28, 2009 Jmo in Canada. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #3 April 28, 2009 live incidents or experimental data? Jay posted here results of his jumps on various wings/loadings with a bunch of cypres sensors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #4 April 28, 2009 Quotelive incidents or experimental data? Jay posted here results of his jumps on various wings/loadings with a bunch of cypres sensors. Link?My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #5 April 28, 2009 Jay posted: QuoteDuriing a series of almost 100 test jumps and while wearing multiple x4 data loggers supplied by airtec (cypres) I was able to reach a top (vertical) speed of 106.2 mph. This was during a 810 deg turn started at 1500ft while jumping a 71 (velo proto) at a wing loading of about 3.5-1. When jumping a 96 Velo at 2.5-1 starting a 810deg turn at 1500ft I was able to reach a top speed of 90.7 mph. My average speeds were approx 85mph. Note: these were the highest speeds recorded during testing and do not reflect anything close to normal speeds reached by average pilots All jumps were performed at sea level. Stu's reply to Jay's post: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2744239;search_string=jayfreefly;#2744239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
svdree 0 #6 April 28, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqaMGIqWe4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #7 April 28, 2009 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqaMGIqWe4 Wow! At the moment of reserve PC emerging, the speed does NOT look to be more than 35 meters per second (Cypres fire speed). Same here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VArZMCsnSxw Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdfreefly 1 #8 April 28, 2009 I'd like more info on this...any idea on: Loading Approach Height of manuever It looks like he was hanging on fronts from up high, then into a 360. Is that correct? Methane Freefly - got stink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #9 April 28, 2009 take a look at the video description it has all the info right there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #10 April 28, 2009 QuoteI'd like more info on this...any idea on: Loading Approach Height of manuever It looks like he was hanging on fronts from up high, then into a 360. Is that correct? To me it looks about 400 degree turn.. (even though he says 450) Loading is 2.7 like is said on the vid. He wasnt on the fronts very long. You can see him releasing the brakes in the very beginning of the video. I think Fred Fugen has also had a cypres fire in addition to those that were already mentioned. Good luck with the presentation, but dont expect to find too much info. I think Airtec doesnt want to give much info out on public since they regard some things as trade secrets. (like the exact minimum conditions for a cypres fire) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bofh 0 #11 April 29, 2009 Nico Emanuelsson had a cypres fire last year during a landing in Sweden. He noticed when it happened and landed without injuries. There was another cypres activation in Sweden during a high performance landing resulting in some serious injury. I don't remember who it was, nor if it was during 2008 or 2007. The Swedish safety committee can provide more information; sff (at) sff.se. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mx19 0 #12 April 30, 2009 http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/forums/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=16216 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NealFitz 0 #13 May 3, 2009 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqaMGIqWe4 He is one of our instructors in NI. he wasnt using a speed cypres on this occasionDudeist Skydiver #170 You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JanuszPS 0 #14 May 5, 2009 It's Vigil, so I don't know if it counts... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lehGkRCFXY&feature=channel JanuszBack to Poland... back home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #15 May 5, 2009 Looks like that was a user error. Vigil was set to Student mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #16 May 5, 2009 QuoteLooks like that was a user error. Vigil was set to Student mode. Why does it fire at zero vertical speed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #17 May 5, 2009 QuoteLooks like that was a user error. Vigil was set to Student mode. What makes you think so ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #18 May 5, 2009 Didn't look like he was going very fast to me."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,489 #19 May 6, 2009 QuoteQuoteLooks like that was a user error. Vigil was set to Student mode. Why does it fire at zero vertical speed? It's an interesting question, that. I've seen a Cypres2 fire in person where the reserve PC deployed (so not neccessarily when the cypres actually fired) at zero feet after the plane-out, and seen video of another Cypres2 fire which was identical. Why is it happening so late?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #20 May 6, 2009 QuoteWhat makes you think so ? He is a Russian jumper. We had a discussion of this incident on our skydiving forums. The cause of fire: setting the Vigil to Student mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #21 May 6, 2009 Not a high speed landing so I'm not sure it will help. This happend in Brazil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDUPAkuWP4YEngineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearless_chris 1 #22 May 6, 2009 Do you suppose he put his Vigil in student mode also? One of our newer jumpers fired a student Cypress with a 210 Sabre."If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane. My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NealFitz 0 #23 May 6, 2009 shows how quick a reserve can open Dudeist Skydiver #170 You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #24 May 7, 2009 Worst, he turned the AAD on and the message CTRL ERR appeared on the screen. He repeated the process and it appeared again. On the third try the Vigil started normally then he jumped it and had the misfire. Here follows the manufacturer’s reply: Ø VIGIL #10664: After having received the info and analyzed the graphs, the first thing we want to remind is: If someone has a ³CTRL ERR² message on screen, they should contact us or their dealer to inform that there is a problem (see page 14 of our User¹s Manual VII.0.1). This could have avoided to continue to jump with this unit, because a ³CTRL ERR² message means that there is a technical problem in the unit. On the unit, we stated that one of the 6 connections (solder points) between the pressure sensor and the PCB (printed circuit board) was not always giving contact (we call this Œcold solder point¹). This is a kind of defect which is very difficult to find, because it is very rare. It cannot always be detected during all the test procedures we do on each Vigil that comes out of production. We want to remind you that all the controls the Vigil does when you start it up, will show you if something is wrong (as it did in this case by giving the ³CTRL ERR 3² message twice). CONCLUSION: This unit didn¹t work correctly due to this technical defect and not due to any other reason. REMARK: This solder point is not accessible to be repaired. That is why we also propose a new unit in replacement. Please don¹t use a Vigil that gives an error message! We hope to have answered your questions with this explanation. It is in the owner’s manual, do not jump an unit that presents an error message.Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
