Calvin19 0 #1 December 17, 2009 wondering if there is a canopy made for good non-swooping acro, or one that is known to be good for it. a canopy with very short recovery arc and super fast roll rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 December 17, 2009 Diablo and Stiletto both fall into that envelope.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #3 December 17, 2009 I put 100 swoops on a stiletto 120 a few years ago, and about 30 on a Stiletto 150. the 150 was too slow in roll and 120 still was too ground hungry for what I want to be doing. is a Diablo better? faster roll? Thanks for the help, I know its a weird thing to be looking for. I love flying my bullet but freefall jumping it wears it out exponentially faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #4 December 17, 2009 Contact the CReW types, particularly the Plaid Jackets in Alberta.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #5 December 17, 2009 Quote I love flying my bullet but freefall jumping it wears it out exponentially faster. How does that work? Slider, RDS, or sew on a bridle attachment point? Where do people discuss this sort of thing? It isn't the usual thing on dz.com. ParaglidingForum.com? Or is there a site that speedflyer canopy pilots congregate at? I know of the small acro paragliders but not what's been done with speedflying wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dqpacker 7 #6 December 18, 2009 Did you try a 135? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #7 December 18, 2009 QuoteI put 100 swoops on a stiletto 120 a few years ago, and about 30 on a Stiletto 150. the 150 was too slow in roll and 120 still was too ground hungry for what I want to be doing. is a Diablo better? faster roll? Thanks for the help, I know its a weird thing to be looking for. I love flying my bullet but freefall jumping it wears it out exponentially faster.A Diablo will turn like a top but has no glide whatsoever. Why would you want glide? Another *fast* turning canopy would be the Vengeance, but it's groundhungry as well.Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #8 December 18, 2009 Calvin .... you already know the answer - a Paraglider or Speed Wing (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #9 December 18, 2009 Quote Calvin .... you already know the answer - a Paraglider or Speed Wing yeah I know. I just was hoping for a parachute. easy. I will try to find a good stiletto 135 like someone said. or trim up a 120. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 December 18, 2009 I don't expect it to be to long a wait before someone builds a strong enough glider... I just hope that I'll be young enough to still jump and fly it [Fingers Crossed]. A jumpable Bobcat would be a great start. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #11 December 18, 2009 I think it should go the other way... I think we should ask Ozone or Gin to build one of their gliders from heavy ZP and not light sail fabric. i don't care about pack volume. I have jumped a few gliders now, the flight performances are black and white compared to parachutes. what would KICK ASS is a long wingsuit flight through clouds, and then opening a Bullet 16 or bobcat at 5000' and whipping the thing around for another few minutes. easily doable. I have jumped my gliders, just not for wingsuit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #12 December 18, 2009 A Stiletto has a relatively flat trim. Glide angle should not change with wingload. The question in my mind remains, why do you want a flat glide, and what do you consider flat?Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sidarapr 0 #13 December 18, 2009 I’ve a put a couple hundred jumps on a Diablo 135 choosing it over a Stiletto at the time as this was nine years ago. It is a blast to fly with a super fast turn rate and fantastic openings. More fun to fly than the Stilleto IMO for the time and what I was looking for. That’s what you get out of a 7 cell, boxed shaped elliptical canopy. It doesn’t have the flattest glide rate and you’re not going get a whole lot of swoop out of it. I enjoyed it quite a bit but then started to discover swooping but still one of my most memorable canopies. Besides you'd be jumping a collector's item.Rick Paradis If inside there is no enemy, the enemy therefore on the outside cannot harm us. African proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #14 December 18, 2009 Quote A Stiletto has a relatively flat trim. flat trim is great, but more I want fast dive recovery. not the same thing Quote Glide angle should not change with wingload. in a perfect aerodynamic world, yes. but it does change. induced drag and lift increase exponentially with speed, but so does parasite drag. ***The question in my mind remains, why do you want a flat glide, and what do you consider flat? I consider flat to be the 10/1 glide I can get out of some of the gliders I fly. of course I'll consider something less for a freefall designed parachute. what I want is something that flies like my bullet 12m paraglider but is designed to be opened a few thousand times after freefall. I have jumped my bullet and i LOVE it but it was built like a paraglider and does not handle the deployment loads well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #15 December 18, 2009 Whilst we at it (and I hope this doesn't sound like a daft question) ... What is the best way to measure the Recovery Arc for a given canopy.... I can 'feel' that they are different on my Saber1, Katana & Nano but dont know how best to quantify it... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #16 December 18, 2009 QuoteWhilst we at it (and I hope this doesn't sound like a daft question) ... What is the best way to measure the Recovery Arc for a given canopy.... I can 'feel' that they are different on my Saber1, Katana & Nano but dont know how best to quantify it... yeah I have no idea. Probably one of those things with so many different factors it would be harder to 'quantify' than even the glide of a canopy, though that seems like it would be easy. I have done full 180' snap dives from well less than 200' on my bullet12, that would KILL a person on any similar sized skydive canopy. that is hands off dive recovery though, on the bullet GTs you can do a low 180 but you have the help it through the plane-out. but we are talking about skydive canopies. I have really only flown a stilletto. I have a dozen or so on a velocity and vengeance sub 120' canopies, those things seemed like they eat up energy very fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #17 December 18, 2009 Quote A jumpable Bobcat would be a great start. For you? Yeah, maybe. The trouble is you'll get people with no paragliding experience buying Bobcats and going in under them because they're so different to fly than parachutes... The Bobcat, Swoop, even early Bullets & Nanos are much more like paragliders than parachutes in their handling and need to be treated as such. We've already got people buying parachute that are more than then can handle because they have mad skills. Now throw in 100sq ft canopies that react as twitchily as the Swoop does to harness input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newswooper 0 #18 December 18, 2009 i would try mamba blade undertaker (brand new) when you want a parachute. i have a blade 108 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #19 December 18, 2009 True Will ... but that shouldn't stop them being produced (like small X_braced canopies)... We (?) Just need to be mindfull - we already have systems (?) in place - they just need to be adherered to.... I'm not sure what the answer is, but it [probably] isn't to stop development (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #20 December 18, 2009 Quoteundertaker (brand new) I believe the undertaker is still in development. I know someone was using them at the World Cup this year, but said it was still being refined. Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newswooper 0 #21 December 18, 2009 it was markus from germany maybe its still in development but you can buy it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iGGy 0 #22 December 19, 2009 Try getting hold of a PdF Springo 140. Flatter glide than a Stiletto, more responsive on toggles, great openings. It's great for everything except swooping, because it has a VERY short recovery arc. I think it might be what you're looking for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 December 19, 2009 Springo... that's what I was trying to remember.. It's used for Speed Riding too ... ah, the old grey cells spark back into life when kicked sufficiently hard... Thanks. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fab777 0 #24 December 19, 2009 About 8 years ago, Nervures ( manufacturer of the Swoop speedflying wing ) built and experimented a high aspect ratio skydive wing. I don't remember the details, but I think they had a 19m2 and a 17m2, with a plan form very similar to a paraglider. I believe this was a prototype for the military. Anyway, it's never been produced as a sport canopy. Fabien BASE#944 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #25 December 19, 2009 QuoteSpringo... that's what I was trying to remember.. It's used for Speed Riding too ... ah, the old grey cells spark back into life when kicked sufficiently hard... Thanks. Just be careful with springos and turbulence. NOT a good combination. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
