Ground Launching Survey

[kitesurfa 0]

Bit of a survey to see...
1. If there are many skydivers who use their Canopy to Ground Launch regularly
2. What canopies you are using and which works best

Hoping that any info posted will help me update the Usable Parachutes section on http://www.speed-flying.com Speed-Flying Wing guide.

http://www.speed-flying.com - No:1 for the worldwide Speed-Riding Community

[shropshire 0]

Nope, I use my Speed Wing and Paragliders ... (the right tools for the job).

Canopies ..
Gin Nano
Gradient Aspen 2
Gin Beetle 2 (Tandem)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Calvin19 0]

I use
-Ozone Bullet (speed glider, all sizes)
-paragliders

I have used skydiving canopies, but the significant lack of control and feel for the only thing keeping you off the ground is scary.

With a STRONG upslope wind, sometimes using skydiving canopies is ok. but rarely. I include the GLX in that. it's just a skydiving canopy that can't be skydived.

-SPACE-

[VectorBoy 0]

I use a 10 meter hang glider. Cuz face it a rag wing can't get you places. Real gliders go 100s of miles.

[Calvin19 0]

I have gone to 17k' and 79miles on a rag wing

but yes, you are correct. that is why I fly sailplanes also. 120mph and 50/1 L-D. interstate is no big deal. (round trip)

It has been a long time since I have flown a hang glider. I have not rigged my delta wing dream 205 in over 2 years now.

-SPACE-

[shropshire 0]

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I use a 10 meter hang glider. Cuz face it a rag wing can't get you places. Real gliders go 100s of miles.

Flown a 7 hour flight on my polly bag - crap aren't they

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[freeflyn 0]

__



I have flown several skydiving canopies for ground launching, my first flight was on an FX and was a real pain in the ass as closed nosed wings do have a tendency to "bow tie" when launching in no winds. I do agree with having the right tools for the job and using a wing that is dedicated to skydiving is less then ideal, however, in some very limited circumstances it is the best tool.

I have flown only a couple of paraglider platform wings (10-12m^2) so my experience under these is more limited. These wings are ridiculously easy to get inflated (in no-wind launchs) and take to the sky with similar ease. I strongly recommend them for people that are interested in ground launching. However, my preferred flying style result in having a preference for the GLX.

I do disagree with the opinion that the GLX is an open nosed skydiving wing that can not be jumped. A similar statement would be; the Bullet is a just a smaller Radix. The differences are not obvious but are definitely there and the amount of test flying and iterations in developing this wing was truly amazing. By no means is the GLX intended for every pilot and recommend them for expert pilots only.

I currently have a GLX 120 for no wind and I rarely use my JVX 77 for higher wind as I prefer no wind and close to the ground flying.





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[Calvin19 0]

I have only ever flown a GLX 135, the 120 must be insane for speed flying launches. with the right sight and the right pilot, a GLX 70 would be AMAZING, and I hope to use one someday for that. (I am working on smaller and faster right now though )

I was being overly-judgmental, being that all the 50 jump muppets that read this and call me for lessons want to fly their saber2s off the local hill.

-SPACE-

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

"right tool for the job" is definitely the right idea here. SURE, people used to BASE off El Capital with round mains, but now everyone knows better. I can't imagine why anyone nowadays would fuck around with speed gliding (FKA: "groud launching" in about five people's eyes) with anything other than a real paraglider or speed wing.

I can barefoot behind a jet ski and even my old 1978 Tahiti Jet Boat (with a Chevy 454), but would much rather do it behind a "proper" boat nowadays.

[stayhigh 2]

Cuz real speed wing costs money and i have free stilleto???

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

good enough answer for me. Get with it!

[shveddy 0]

Quote

I have used skydiving canopies, but the significant lack of control and feel for the only thing keeping you off the ground is scary.

With a STRONG upslope wind, sometimes using skydiving canopies is ok.

What sort of control does a skydiving canopy lack, and what design characteristics on speedwings give you the control you need?

Thanks.

[Calvin19 0]

Quote

What sort of control does a skydiving canopy lack, and what design characteristics on speedwings give you the control you need?

Thanks.

inflation control is the most important, then comes the trimmed speed.

any skydiving canopy is significantly less willing to cooperate while ground handling and launching. try kiting a bullet or a nano sometime, you will see what I mean.

then there is recovery arcs, glide ratios, energy retention, etc. speed flying gliders have much better scores in all these.

-SPACE-

[freeflyn 0]

ding ding ding... we have a winner!

[Calvin19 0]

Of the skydive canopies I have used, the stiletto is the best. I used trimmers though, and on a 150 (stiletto) that works great.

-SPACE-

[adamT 0]

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the stiletto is the best

and for me the stiletto is one of the least stimulating canopies i've ever flown, but it is a lot like the 12 and 14m bullets i've flown.

Its all about where your trying to fly and how you like to fly.

As for ground handling in light winds, any speed wing will beat the crap out of the wings made for skydiving(small nose openings). I find the spire and glx to be plenty workable in no wind and with much more exciting flying once your off.

All said i love trying new wings and look forward to flying newer speed wings, only tired the nano and bullet so far. Liked the nano quit a bit more then the bullet.

[shveddy 0]

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inflation control is the most important, then comes the trimmed speed.

I'm assuming the trimmed speed is slower so you don't have to run as fast to acheive lift off?

Quote

any skydiving canopy is significantly less willing to cooperate while ground handling and launching. try kiting a bullet or a nano sometime, you will see what I mean.

I'm going to have to take your word for it until I can make my escape from the flatlands .

[Calvin19 0]

Stimulating is great, once the pilot can control it.

It's all the same shit, pull left, go left. pull right, go right.

The most stimulating glider I have ever flown is a FLX. and it's 180 square feet.

-SPACE-

[LetsGoOutside 0]

I now do all my foot launching with my ITV Bip Bip 16. Haven't had a ton of time with it yet, but thus far it seems like an extremely well rounded wing touching both ends of the speedflying and paragliding spectrum.

I have a Nova 135 with big grab toggles in a custom "unpacked" BASE rig. I've thrown a Sabre2 107 and Katana 97 on there many times, as well. Sabre2 was great for 15+ knots winds, and Katana was more of novelty for taking on super high winds that no one should fly.

This was my primary rig for years and despite what anyone says, it was solid and safe. I now use it to show my skydiving friends how to kite (since four risers is often a bit much at first) and launch at "safe" hills (~30°, grassy and soft with no obstacles). And I'm sure I'll fly it again for shits and giggles. That Nova 135 is like the easiest thing to get off the ground.

[matc 0]

I've been using a stiletto 120 for 2 years now.

[AdD 1]

This is a post I made to the incident forum after a friend of mine died ground launching his skydiving canopy...
I strictly use a Gin Bobcat 16.5m wing for this stuff and this is why...

Skydiving canopies also have more difficulty recovering from a stall or collapse. Watch this video and you will see what I mean, speedwings are far more stable in turbulence. Imagine what would happen if your nose folded under your skydive canopy 10 feet off the deck. This guy barely drops at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq1Ho4dMjIk

Speedfly canopies tend to have higher aspect ratios, better glide, more stability and lower stall speeds than skydiving canopies. The learning curve in speedflying is steeper than skydiving and there are no instructors up there to save you from yourself, nor are there any backup safety systems other than back protection which doesn't always help.

When you decide to take on this sport you need to realize it isn't just a long swoop you can hike up to. The launch needs to put you above your canopy's stall speed and into the air on a trajectory that takes you clear of obstacles. You need to check your canopy often while running down steep and dangerous terrain without losing your step. You need to know how many steps you can take at each launch point before you need to make the decision to fly or abort. You need to lean forward into the harness during the run and launch and never jump off anything without feeling positive pressure from the harness.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[Calvin19 0]

Quote

This is a post I made to the incident forum after a friend of mine died ground launching his skydiving canopy...
I strictly use a Gin Bobcat 16.5m wing for this stuff and this is why...

Skydiving canopies also have more difficulty recovering from a stall or collapse. Watch this video and you will see what I mean, speedwings are far more stable in turbulence. Imagine what would happen if your nose folded under your skydive canopy 10 feet off the deck. This guy barely drops at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq1Ho4dMjIk

Speedfly canopies tend to have higher aspect ratios, better glide, more stability and lower stall speeds than skydiving canopies. The learning curve in speedflying is steeper than skydiving and there are no instructors up there to save you from yourself, nor are there any backup safety systems other than back protection which doesn't always help.

When you decide to take on this sport you need to realize it isn't just a long swoop you can hike up to. The launch needs to put you above your canopy's stall speed and into the air on a trajectory that takes you clear of obstacles. You need to check your canopy often while running down steep and dangerous terrain without losing your step. You need to know how many steps you can take at each launch point before you need to make the decision to fly or abort. You need to lean forward into the harness during the run and launch and never jump off anything without feeling positive pressure from the harness.

Good post.

-SPACE-

[moto89 0]

I have flown my Lotus 130 a number of times. I would only fly this canopy on a hill as friendly as mine though. It's an enormous, outrageously steep hill, and it is mostly soft sand. That said it is still pretty difficult. Without lots of headwind it's very tough to get enough airspeed to fly, and once airborne it's a matter of flying in deep brakes to get separation from the hill. I usually only get a couple seconds of full flight at the very bottom of the hill in time to flare.

Less talking, more flying.

[eetula 0]

funny that the original poster asked for skydiving canopies that are used for GL, but the nearly everyone tells about their paragliders etc..

i have only experience about sabre 150 and heatwave 150

sabre is a pain in the ass even to get up from ground, but heatwave worked much better.

i would say that if you want to use some skydiving canopy to gl, find yourself a stiletto or equivalent(heatwave, contrail?) canopy with flat glide..

[yoink 321]

Quote

funny that the original poster asked for skydiving canopies that are used for GL, but the nearly everyone tells about their paragliders etc..

There's a reason for that...

most of us started on skydiving canopies but we've found that specialist designed-for-the-task gear is far safer and easier to use - particularly when learning.

People are being careful not to imply that just becuse you can use skydiving wings for GL, doesn't mean that you should.

We don't use skydiving canopies for BASE anymore as there are better and safer options available. The same is true of GL.