mantis

[imdskydiver 0]

I saw a couple of articles on the net about the mantis position, The first one described it as just like the box position and then bring your hands down 6 - 10" in front of your chin, This would keep a good arch in your shoulders with a good fall rate , The second one described it like laying down on the floor with your hands under your chin as if you were watching TV, then just bring your forearms and hands down and lay them on the floor, To me this would give your shoulders quite a bit of cupping and a much slower fall rate,
Which way is best or gives you more control ?

[PalmettoTiger 1]

The intent may be to dearch a little - if you have access to the last year's worth of Parachutists, there's a good article about how being less stable (i.e. less arched) helps you move more quickly.
I wanted to put some really inspiring lyrics here but none of them fit.
>< !!

[Watcher 0]

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The second one described it like laying down on the floor with your hands under your chin as if you were watching TV, then just bring your forearms and hands down and lay them on the floor, To me this would give your shoulders quite a bit of cupping and a much slower fall rate,

But because youve brought your arms in, youve decreased the amount of surface area your body is presenting therefore you are moving faster. The tighter body position is also alot more stable and gives you more agility when you are moving around reaching for grips.
Jonathan

[alan 1]

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The tighter body position is also alot more stable and gives you more agility when you are moving around reaching for grips.

Not really. The position is less stable, which allows for more speed, or agility if you will, in flying to the new grips. The old article in one of last years Parachutists , mentioned in another reply, explains the theory pretty well. Anhedral as opposed to dihedral.
alan

[weid14 0]

OK, that picture is a poor representation of the mantis position. have someone toss a football at your face, where do your hands go and how are they postioned? this si where you want them to be. you're also going to push your thighs into the air a little so you will be shoulders high. do NOT de-arch.... you need to still be pelvis down. otherwise you will wash around in the sky. you are in less of a balanced position cause your base of support has been brought in a bit. you do not want to pull your arms in, you need them to create surface area to turn. you are "pushing" on the air more, which wil slow your fall rate down a bit, but you will have built up energy for turns when you re-drirect the air... you also need to get your legs involved in the turn. Come on down to the tunnel in Orlando and we'll get it all straight!!!

[Jumperpaula 0]

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..have someone toss a football at your face, where do your hands go and how are they postioned? this is where you want them to be....you do not want to pull your arms in, you need them to create surface area to turn....

This is a hard visual....Got pictures?
Fly Your Slot !

[weid14 0]

I'll see if I can find any pictures, but try this....
palms facing out (away from you), elbows slightly bent, touch your thumbs and pointer fingers together (makes what looks to be like a triangle), now lay down on the floor and put your arms in the same position -- your forearms will be on the floor, your shoulders won't... that's pretty much it!

[Emma 0]

I think that's the VMax article in 'Skydive! The Mag' you're referring to? In my opinion this is a pretty good article but your best bet is to get yourself a Skydive U coach to go through it with you in person.
Myself, after flying boxman for 250+ jumps, I found the mantis a welcome relief. It is not only far more efficient in terms of the speed at which you can turn, it is also a lot more comfortable for me. I think this is because I'm quite light, and arching harder and harder in a boxman to keep up with lardy blokes hinders your movement quite a lot, as well as putting you in a pretty uncomfortable position.
The mantis seems to equalise fall rate issues a bit, as long as all jumpers are using the position. You can also get a better view of the formation. However, I do find it impossible to keep up with fat blokes flying boxman if I'm mantising.
Have fun.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Emma, Paula et al, the articles and pictures are here,
www.skydivemag.com
You can either use search, or just trawl through the 'reprints' in the back issues, cos there is loads of good stuff on-line......
Not just for RW fliers, but good stuff on starting FF, safety etc...
BTW I think Lesley Gale is great, and this resource is way under utilised!
Cya
D

[philhartree 0]

Enuff with the TWO, yes, count 'em TWO, lardy fat arse blokes reference..... EAT SOME (MORE) PIES
It's sooo difficult to de-arch for floaty birds!
Phil
---
If you have to ask, you don't understand

[Remster 30]

HEAR HEAR Phil!
My problem is that Karen can eat so much and doesnt gain weight! dammit!!
Remster
Muff 914

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Man, I hate all this shapeist talk, why can't we all just eat pies and get along with each other?
"I have a dream..."

[Jacked 0]

http://www.bpa.org.uk/doc_pages/training
Go to the FS student training manual and read.. It is a very good read...

The end result is directly connected to the effort applied