riddler 0 #1 January 23, 2003 I had a rigger tell me that Cypress batteries will typically last longer if you do not cycle the cypress off at the end of the day. He said that the energy used for the LED to light up four times is more than the energy used for the Cypress to stay on until it automatically shuts off. Anyone have an expert opinion on that? I would like to do whatever keeps the batteries lasting longer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 23, 2003 *edited* What I posted was proved wrong, I was misinformed, so I removed what I posted. Thank you Lisa for helping me learn something new today! --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #3 January 23, 2003 Expert opinion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #4 January 23, 2003 AirTec told us that it really doesn't matter either way. Leave it on or turn it off, it's just about the same. The only exception to that is if you're drive home from the DZ takes you through any altitude changes (like as little as a couple hundred feet). In that case, turn it off so it won't start its sensing cycle. Like all batteries, keep them out of hot conditions as best you can, that'll help as well. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #5 January 23, 2003 From Brush or Longemont to Denver, turn it off. The altitude difference is way over the 50ft Airtec suggests. I turn off my pro-track for the same reason. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #6 January 23, 2003 Thanks Lisa - good reading. So my situation is that I usually drive home from the DZ at the end of the day, and there is about 1,000 feet of elevation difference between myself and the DZ. In this case, I should turn off the cypress before I drive home to preserve batteries. OTOH, when I spend the night at the DZ, it's about the same to turn it off vs. let it turn off by itself, so in that situation it doesn't matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 January 23, 2003 It depends on a few things. There is no evidence to back up what your rigger said. The tests that Gary Peek with the unit do not show this to be true. You can read his analysis here: http://www.pcprg.com/cyprespc.htm However, 1) If there's any chance that you'll need to turn it back on, just leave it on. The full cycle, turn off, turn on takes more power then leaving it on. The turn-on cycles is particularly power intensive. 2) If you're leaving the DZ at the end of the day, and you'll be going up and down hills in your car, turn it off. The changes in altitude will put the unit into a mode that draws more power. If you're sure you're done jumping, turn it off. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aufreefly 0 #8 January 23, 2003 What about an extremly slow descent of 600 feet over about an hour and a half of driving? Will the unit think that it is in a plane? Can you look at it and tell if it thinks that it is in a plane? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller 0 #9 January 23, 2003 Lisa, that was a good link, but a bit dated in one respect,....I think. There was a line in cliff's page that said something along the lines of "it's a good idea to replace the battery if they're going to expire within the next repack cycle." It's very foggy in my mind but i think that the AAD is now considered part of the reserve system (for rigs that have them installed), and you can't repack a rig if the batteries are going to expire within the repack cycle or if the AAD doesn't meet the manufacturer's required maintenance schedule. I vaguely remember a ruling against a rigger that kind of set the precedent for this a while back. If I'm really bored I'll get out the old issues of skydiving and look it up. BTW, Lisa, thanks for calling me a nice guy on my other post regarding replacing my customer's cypres with mine so he could go on vacation today. What's funny (and sad) is that he FREAKED when I suggested that he just not take his cypres. Yeah they're great and all, and I have a couple, but come on, the idea of jumping w/o one just freaks some people out. Oh well. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #10 January 23, 2003 Quote It's very foggy in my mind but i think that the AAD is now considered part of the reserve system (for rigs that have them installed), and you can't repack a rig if the batteries are going to expire within the repack cycle or if the AAD doesn't meet the manufacturer's required maintenance schedule. When I had just received my rig and had it inspected/repacked I had my CYPRESS bateries changed as they were going to expire like 3 months into the repack cycle and rigger said he could not repack with this being the case. So I know that's the deal here in Canada. (we have the 6 month cycle here) He also offered to repack without it. Quote What's funny (and sad) is that he FREAKED when I suggested that he just not take his cypres. Yeah they're great and all, and I have a couple, but come on, the idea of jumping w/o one just freaks some people out. Oh well. I've made but two jumps on borrowed gear without an AAD. Although it did not FREAK me out, I was a tad bit sensitive about it. In any case, I can at least understand why some absolutely refuse. I say to each his/her own. If you absolutely wont jump without a CYPRESS, so be it I understand you Yankees are not required to wear helmets but I'm sure there are some of you that never leave the ground without one. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #11 January 24, 2003 I dont own a cypres and I sure dont freak everytime I jump.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jillr 0 #12 January 24, 2003 I didn't have a cypress for my first hundred or so jumps off student status. Then one day while on the way to plane a friend mentions that another jumper is selling her virtually brand new one cheap. You can guess what happened on that jump- I couldn't find my handle and had to go for my reserve. Needless to say I gave her the first payment for that cypress that day. I was and am completely comfortable with my emergency procedures but I have a child I need to come home at the end of the day. I am simply more comfortable having one on my back. I can completely understand why people "freak out" about not having one, whether or not some of us consciously rationalized that we've created a "security blanket" in it- we have. It does not mean we are any less comfortable with our procedures... But back to the subject of the thread- half the time I don't have the "touch" it requires to get the darned thing turned off. I can turn it on without problem- turning it off is another story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #13 January 24, 2003 QuoteWhat's funny (and sad) is that he FREAKED when I suggested that he just not take his cypres. Yeah they're great and all, and I have a couple, but come on, the idea of jumping w/o one just freaks some people out. Oh well. Mike On aircraft we have equipment that is "deferable" known as "MEL able" and equipment that is a NO GO item. Why is it so hard to believe that people would choose certain skydiving safety equipment to be a NO GO item? It's their choice and their decision. I mean, we don't fuel aircraft to have just enough fuel for the flight in them? (most consciencious pilots won't) We have to have enough in reserve. We don't make fun of them when they decide to put more fuel on do we? I think we really need to get away from this stigma of people only jumping with a working Cypres unit as being a bad thing. Cypres has limitations just like all skydiving gear has limitations. But if someone chooses to have that safety equipment on their rig and only jump with it available and working then there shouldn't be any taunting and it is not "sad".Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apoil 0 #14 January 24, 2003 Quote It's very foggy in my mind but i think that the AAD is now considered part of the reserve system (for rigs that have them installed), and you can't repack a rig if the batteries are going to expire within the repack cycle or if the AAD doesn't meet the manufacturer's required maintenance schedule. I vaguely remember a ruling against a rigger that kind of set the precedent for this a while back. If I'm really bored I'll get out the old issues of skydiving and look it up. What I've seen riggers do in this situation is back date the reserve pack date such that it will expire when the cypres batteries expire. Essentially forcing a repack at that time. Naturally the rigger gave the option to do that, or change the batteries, or pack without the cypress. Additionally, the SAME rigger will often be willing to swap out the old batteries for new at that time and just reclose the container without charging for a full I&R. Presumably he would then date the reserve packjob back to the actual date of the first packjob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #15 January 24, 2003 Quote Quote What's funny (and sad) is that he FREAKED when I suggested that he just not take his cypres. Yeah they're great and all, and I have a couple, but come on, the idea of jumping w/o one just freaks some people out. Oh well. Mike On aircraft we have equipment that is "deferable" known as "MEL able" and equipment that is a NO GO item. Why is it so hard to believe that people would choose certain skydiving safety equipment to be a NO GO item? It's their choice and their decision. I mean, we don't fuel aircraft to have just enough fuel for the flight in them? (most consciencious pilots won't) We have to have enough in reserve. We don't make fun of them when they decide to put more fuel on do we? I think we really need to get away from this stigma of people only jumping with a working Cypres unit as being a bad thing. Cypres has limitations just like all skydiving gear has limitations. But if someone chooses to have that safety equipment on their rig and only jump with it available and working then there shouldn't be any taunting and it is not "sad". For a guy that does 10-way (Grrr) you can be remarkably sensible at times.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #16 January 24, 2003 Question: Do we really need to worry about "maximizing" Cypres battery life? Since it must be replaced after two years or 500 jumps anyway? I've never known anyone whose batteries died before the mandatory replacement thresholds, but perhaps it happens.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #17 January 24, 2003 I've had a few friends that have claimed their batteries expired like James Dean - before their time - but I never witnessed it, so it's not first-hand experience. There is also some question about what caused it to happen - letting rigs set in sunlight, heated trunks, lots of jumping. But you're right, I don't think it happens often. I'm just one of those people that always worries about batteries Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #18 January 24, 2003 Quotethe idea of jumping w/o one just freaks some people out. This is a bit off-topic for this thread, but just want to chime in that I've never jumped w/o an AAD and I don't know how comfortable I would be without one. I do feel good about my ability to handle emergency procedures, but I also like to have multiple backup plans. I think it's like wearing a seatbelt. If you've always done it and you've never experienced anything else, then doing without can be daunting.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #19 January 24, 2003 >On aircraft we have equipment that is "deferable" known as "MEL >able" and equipment that is a NO GO item. If you were flying day VFR with another pilot in a 172, and he refused to fly in any 172 that didn't have a working two-axis autopilot "just in case" would you wonder about his reasoning? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #20 January 24, 2003 ...I love it when logic wins, thanks bill. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #21 January 25, 2003 Quote>On aircraft we have equipment that is "deferable" known as "MEL >able" and equipment that is a NO GO item. If you were flying day VFR with another pilot in a 172, and he refused to fly in any 172 that didn't have a working two-axis autopilot "just in case" would you wonder about his reasoning? I didn't know a 2-axis autopilot could land a 172 in the event that the pilot became incapacitated. But then I fly my Mooney IFR with no autopilot at all, so what would I know. The majority of the population won't jump out of a plane at all. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance, and it is not my business to question them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #22 January 25, 2003 QuoteThe majority of the population won't jump out of a plane at all. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance, and it is not my business to question them. Not only that, but mocking and discouraing those who do choose to be safer does not seem wise. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #23 January 26, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe majority of the population won't jump out of a plane at all. Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance, and it is not my business to question them. Not only that, but mocking and discouraing those who do choose to be safer does not seem wise. _Am Andy, you may know "Radio Dave", one of our team members. He jumped without a CYPRES, citing no need. Last summer on a 10-way practice jump he hit his head hard on the door frame on exit (not totally unknown in 10-way), and despite his hard helmet the first thing he recalls was coming-to at 5,000ft or thereabouts. This was doing something he'd done dozens of times before, with people he'd jumped with dozens of times before. He got a CYPRES installed before the next practice.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #24 January 26, 2003 QuoteNot only that, but mocking and discouraing those who do choose to be safer does not seem wise. So are you saying that I am less safe to jump with Andy???? Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mewing120 0 #25 January 26, 2003 I've been told that the battery is not the big issue. It is the life of the Button that can end prematurely if you are always turning it off. Ora Vivo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
