jasonriz 0 #1 November 4, 2002 Hey all, Just a quick question that I've been meaning to post for a few days. I've always been under the impression that one falls faster in the mantis than in the traditional box. My expreience has always seemed to agree with this, though it's kind of hard to tell in freefall. I ask because one of the linked articals in the thread below states that one falls slower in the mantis. So, which is it? Thanks in advance for any feedback! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #2 November 4, 2002 QuoteHey all, Just a quick question that I've been meaning to post for a few days. I've always been under the impression that one falls faster in the mantis than in the traditional box. My expreience has always seemed to agree with this, though it's kind of hard to tell in freefall. I ask because one of the linked articals in the thread below states that one falls slower in the mantis. So, which is it? Thanks in advance for any feedback! im my experience slightly slower -- this due to the constant pressure you're holding on the air with your arms for the most part. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #3 November 4, 2002 I think you'll find some useful info with the following topics - http://www.zct.co.uk/skydivemag/pages/articles/apr00/ontheedge.htm http://www.zct.co.uk/skydivemag/pages/articles/apr01/chicksrockapr.htm http://www.zct.co.uk/skydivemag/pages/articles/dec98/tipsfromthetop.htm I had the opportunity to jump a 2-way this weekend with a buddy who is pretty hardcore into RW. We exit the plane seperately and did compressed accordians until 4000. He pretty much flew the mantis position the whole time. It was SWEET! I wanna learn how to do that.I don't know if it makes you fall faster sice you'd be cupping some serious air with the upper body. He did say however that it's less stable than the boxman. My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #4 November 5, 2002 I would say that the Mantis causes you to fall slower. I say this based on the fact that alot of people have to add lead when they learn this positon. You are cupping the Air....One reason that you do this is to take all of the "slack" out of your controls. Imagine a 77 Chysler New Yorker...ya know the big boat. The steering wheel could move 4-5 inches before the wheels would turn. That is alot lile how you turn in the Boxman. You have to move your Arm several inches before you get a reaction. When you bring both arms down. It does a few things. 1. It takes out the slack. 2. It makes you legs more effective. 3. It brings your head up so you can see better. Lay on your stomach on the ground with a pen and paper..... Write a letter to your Mom.....you really need to do this anyway. How are you laying? Is your head flat on the ground? Are your Arms out 90 deg. and level with your head? Nope. You will lay there on your elbows, head high, hands in close to center. Your upper part of your legs will be flat on the ground. This can make you fall slower, due to the fact that you are not spilling air with your arms, but insted cupping it, getting ready to push it. And you are not spilling air with your legs back. Ron Frost 98-02"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #5 November 7, 2002 QuoteHe did say however that it's less stable than the boxman. The main idea of the mantis position is to be very unstable, that way the turns will be much faster. For more info take a look at the video "body pilot in command". HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #6 November 7, 2002 It is the same unstability that makes the Pitts S1 a better Acrobatic plane than a Cessna 150. You have to fly the Pitts to be stable, you can let go of the Cessna, and it will right itself. In the Mantis you have to fly your body. The Tunnel is a great way to learn this positon. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #7 November 7, 2002 Quote The Tunnel is a great way to learn this positon No wonder! After months of turning points with the wife, I still fly like shit.On a serious note though, how should I practice this solo so I don't hose other people on the load? And how many jumps usually would it take before it clicks?My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #8 November 7, 2002 It would be hard to practice solo.... You need to have someone tell you if you are in the right position.....Or video that you can look at. Anyway it is almost impossible to coach via Email. Its like an advertisment I saw years ago.... "Get your black belt by mail!!!" I was ROFL.... What were you supposed to do? Punch the mailman? Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #9 November 8, 2002 QuoteAnyway it is almost impossible to coach via Email. You said it, almost. I know of a person here in dz.com that gets online coaching. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wlie 0 #10 November 8, 2002 Yeah, I guess a spaceball-cam would be one way. My other ride is the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,075 #11 November 13, 2002 >I ask because one of the linked articals in the thread below states > that one falls slower in the mantis. It depends how you fly it. If your elbows are close together, you are removing a lot of surface area, and thus fall faster. If you just bring your elbows together a little bit, and are thus cupping air and not changing your surface area much, you may fall slower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #12 November 14, 2002 Just got back from the tunnel. The Mantis is an ideal postion to make you fall faster. I tend to float, but if I remembered my elbows and kept them tight, and kept my chin and head up instead of looking down, I could lost altitude very quickly. In fact we had one drill where we spiraled down from the mirrors to the bottom, held ourselves a foot or so off the bottom, and then spiral back up to the mirrors. It was a lot easier than I thought. Going down was less elbows and legs with forearms in turn position, and going up was more elbows and legs with forearms in opposite turn position. I think the key to fall rate with the matis is keeping the head up and the elbows in. I jump with 8 lbs of weight not because of the mantis, but because I don't have much of an arch. The extra weight keeps me from having to punch it out all the time and makes the landings more exciting! Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 November 14, 2002 The ideal Mantis position has the forearms at 45 deg.... At this angle you are the most effective.... Less, you are holding more air, and not able to delflect it. More, you are spilling more air, not deflecting it. If you spill more...Duh you will fall faster. If you cup more....again Duh you will fall slower. But the ideal is to be at 45 deg which is the most effective angle. This, plus the cupping of air by your upper body, and your upper legs being flat most of the time requires adding lead. You can arch more, or spill more air with your arms to make it faster.... But with your arms at 45 deg...It should slow you down. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
