Swoop Cords

[Vallerina 2]

I love my Bev Hot Bod suit, since it fits my J. Lo ass really well. Other suits that I've tried on (granted, they weren't made for me, but they were made for women of a similar height/weight) were too boxy or something.

Anyways, I was just wondering if there was a way to put some swoop cords on my jumpsuit, since that option is not available for Hot Bod suits.

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[smooth 0]

Hi Val - why do you want swoop cords . . . going low a lot? . . . did you use them on your previous suit? Anyway, you could use elastic bungie cord tied to your belt as a quick, easy alternative.

PS - I love your . . . Hot Bod . . . J. Lo ass too !!

[Vallerina 2]

Haha! Hey, Smooth! No, I don't go low often, but it would be nice to have them when I jump with skinny girls that are floaty! I've tried using the slip on sleeves, but I didn't notice a difference (neither did my protrack) and they were kind of a pain.

I didn't use them on my previous suit (also a Hot Bod), but I did use them a few times on my old dz's jumpsuits.

Actually, i'm not sure if there's enough material under the armpit to do much good if I throw a bungee in it. I will try it anyways!

Thanks!

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[base570 1]

I believe swoop cords are useless. If you want to fall at the same speed as the floaty girls, change your body position not your suit. People try to use the suit excuse too much in my opinion, and don't really focus on the underlying issues, which is, body position and anticipation of the fall rates. The proper way to "gain" altitude on a formation is not with your arms and upper body as swoop cords suggest but with your lower spine, pelvis and legs. You'll be more pleased with your flying if you work on this instead of forking out money on an unnecessary alteration on your suit.
Just mt thoughts...
Jason

I'd like some of that Rageahol, it's sounds good

[Stacy 0]

hey val-

make them wear like 30 pounds of weight, then fatten them up with some beer and pizza at the end of the day. tell them real women don't float.

[Vallerina 2]

I completely understand what you're saying about "flying my body" basically instead of just "flying my suit."

I guess there are a few more reasons why swoop cords would be nice (they're "debatable" though, and I don't feel like getting into it.) Also, while I understand that I should learn to fly my body, some positions (butt raised, shoulders cupping air...etc) are uncomfortable after awhile (I'm really not that out of shape! I swear!)

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tell them real women don't float.

No shit! Actually, it's also the light guys, too, that get floaty. So, real men don't float either!

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[base570 1]

Screeech!!!
Let me back up and say that...
I totally agree that faster (down) is way better than having a floaty fall-rate. Having done 4 way for the better part of 6 or 7 years, and previously being a floaty bastard, I know the importance of falling fast. So yes, I'll agree, make them come down to you. Weights, beer, pizza... whatever it takes
Jason

PS I always wear 14 lbs. when doing 4 way and I've found them to be no hinderance in any other dives, in fact, I would rather have them to not. Pus it makes my canopy fly faster

[kallend 2,106]

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I believe swoop cords are useless. If you want to fall at the same speed as the floaty girls, change your body position not your suit. People try to use the suit excuse too much in my opinion, and don't really focus on the underlying issues, which is, body position and anticipation of the fall rates. The proper way to "gain" altitude on a formation is not with your arms and upper body as swoop cords suggest but with your lower spine, pelvis and legs. You'll be more pleased with your flying if you work on this instead of forking out money on an unnecessary alteration on your suit.
Just mt thoughts...
Jason

I'd like some of that Rageahol, it's sounds good

Negative. Agreed that swoop cords shouldn't be used to correct fall rate problems or body position problems, but they are very valuable if you want to stop on a dime after a fast swoop to, for example, a big way or a 10-way speedstar. How long it takes you to get there depends just as much (more, even) on how fast you can stop as on how fast you can go.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steve1 5]

I was bored one day, so I sewed some swoop cords on my old jump suit. It didn't have much loose material in the arm pit area so I sewed in some pieces of extra material to make it baggier there. I'm not sure if you want to do this on a new jump suit though. The thing was that I was sometimes going low. There were several people I couldn't stay up with. To tell you the truth I haven't even tried out the swoop cords yet. Just the extra material is helping me fly with people I sometimes went below. I'm also flying outer slots that I probably couldn't before. I haven't gone low since making this alteration. I like it much better than my slip on sleeves....Steve1

[Samurai136 0]

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PS I always wear 14 lbs. when doing 4 way and I've found them to be no hinderance in any other dives, in fact, I would rather have them to not

14lbs?!?! How light are you? I usually only need 4-6lbs to keep up. I'm 5'10" and pretty skinny.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[base570 1]

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PS I always wear 14 lbs. when doing 4 way and I've found them to be no hinderance in any other dives, in fact, I would rather have them to not

14lbs?!?! How light are you? I usually only need 4-6lbs to keep up. I'm 5'10" and pretty skinny.

Ken

145 with no gear.

[kallend 2,106]

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14lbs?!?! How light are you? I usually only need 4-6lbs to keep up. I'm 5'10" and pretty skinny.

Ken

145 with no gear.

Don't you think your opinion that "swoop cords are useless" might have something to do with the fact that you are a skinny bastard? Someone weighing 245 with no gear might have a very different opinion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SanDiegoRW 0]

So it's okay to add weight to fall faster but not add drag to fall slower? I don't get it. Just like lighter people can't fall fast, heavy people can't fall slow. My exit weight is 145, trust me my middle name is float. Even with F/F I float in my sit. I just bought 12lbs of weight. So why can't bigger people wear baggier suits to slow up their fallrate? It's not compensating for body position. Who wants to fly around bent in half or humping a beach ball just to stay with the rest of the group? I say do what it takes to stay with the dive and be comfortable at the same time.

-Kenny

[weid14 0]

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So it's okay to add weight to fall faster but not add drag to fall slower? I don't get it. Just like lighter people can't fall fast, heavy people can't fall slow. My exit weight is 145, trust me my middle name is float. Even with F/F I float in my sit. I just bought 12lbs of weight. So why can't bigger people wear baggier suits to slow up their fallrate? It's not compensating for body position. Who wants to fly around bent in half or humping a beach ball just to stay with the rest of the group? I say do what it takes to stay with the dive and be comfortable at the same time.

well, depends on the dive, depends on what you are doing in that dive. there are some tricks you can use to slow down -- throw a tee or sweat shirt on over your jump suit, baggy jump suit, different materials, etc. but baggy suits can be limiting (depending on what you are doing). it's much easier to get lightweights to fall faster, sometimes people with low jump numbers also maintain that "student arch" instead of relaxing into the air (making you fall faster obviously).

IMO swoop cords have limited use, and can actually be dangerous under canopy (limiting arm movement).

Oh, and the "slow fall" position -- pretend somebody punched you in the gut, that's the position in the air you want (back curved, pelvis out (not butt up), and shoulders cupped). but this is not an effective postion for turning points.

[kallend 2,106]

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IMO swoop cords have limited use, and can actually be dangerous under canopy (limiting arm movement).

.

Limited use does not mean no use, of course. And you should never wear them under your gloves or altimeter, in case you need to get them off in a hurry.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[AggieDave 6]

Do what I did to keep from going low on formations. Get some Skydive U. training and really learn how to fly your body.

I haven't finished the entire program, but the jumps and training I've gotten so far has turned this FFer into someone who's not worried about going low on RW jumps anymore. (although it happens)

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[base570 1]

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Don't you think your opinion that "swoop cords are useless" might have something to do with the fact that you are a skinny bastard? Someone weighing 245 with no gear might have a very different opinion.

No, I don't. Swoop cords, to me, teach people the wrong way to alter their fall rate. They have ingrained into everyones heads that you slow your fall rate by grabbing air with your arms and upper body... which is not an effective way at all. In my opinion someone weighing 245 or whatever should have a different material for their suits and have it a bit more baggy for more drag and learn how to "anticipate" fall rate changes quickly. Also, the first order of business should be to do what AggieDave suggested... get qualified coaching. Heavy people just like floaty people need to learn to fly their boddies and adjust their body positions to fall relative to the formations BEFORE they start claiming that the formation isn't falling the way they want. Everyone is quick to place the blame on "other jumpers" but really what is needed is for those people to turn it around and look at their own performance, and improve themselves first.

Jason

Oh yeah, you also mentioned that they whould be useful for stopping on a dime after a long dive to a formation... again swoop cords have a minimal effect compared to what you can do with your lower body or a different body position.

[base570 1]

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So it's okay to add weight to fall faster but not add drag to fall slower? I don't get it. Just like lighter people can't fall fast, heavy people can't fall slow. My exit weight is 145, trust me my middle name is float. Even with F/F I float in my sit. I just bought 12lbs of weight. So why can't bigger people wear baggier suits to slow up their fallrate? It's not compensating for body position. Who wants to fly around bent in half or humping a beach ball just to stay with the rest of the group? I say do what it takes to stay with the dive and be comfortable at the same time.

I think we are talking two different things here. You say baggy suits but the discussion was on swoop cords. Not evertone should have the same material for their jumpsuits, I agree with that , but swoop cords are teaching the wrong technics. (please read my response to Kallend). I think you are wrong in your assumption that heavy and light people can't adjust their fall rates and fly with each other, they can, they just haven't leaned the proper technics... yet. I believe that speed is your friend in skydiving, it allows for more crisp, controlled movements, but the fall rate should be more of a middle ground between blazingly fast and super slow, but leaning more towards the fast side. That way everyone (fast and slow fallers) are working to keep everything on level. Weid14 and AggieDave had a few good thoughts too.

Jason
ps-are you wearing 12 lbs. on freefly jumps?? Your profile indicates that freeflying are your two main disciplines... so what's with the SanDiegoRW name??

[happythoughts 0]

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IMO swoop cords have limited use, and can actually be dangerous under canopy (limiting arm movement

Agreed. If people are wearing swoop cords, put them on OVER other stuff like altimeters. I personally know of a case where a guy could not get reach his toggles.

[kallend 2,106]

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Oh yeah, you also mentioned that they whould be useful for stopping on a dime after a long dive to a formation... again swoop cords have a minimal effect compared to what you can do with your lower body or a different body position.

That depends on the jump suit.

Besides, I did not write one word about using swoop cords instead of proper body position.

I recall about 6 or 7 years ago the difference in time between the winner and the 2nd place car in the Indy500 was 0.0003%.

I believe that a skydiving record attempt about 5 years ago failed to hold for the required 3 seconds (old FAI rules), missing it by 0.04seconds.

If you don't want to be competitive, don't use all the resources at your disposal, that's fine by me.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,063]

>Anyways, I was just wondering if there was a way to put some swoop
> cords on my jumpsuit, since that option is not available for Hot Bod
> suits.

Pretty easy to add to a suit. It just takes 2-3 little fabric "loops" near the butt of the suit, then a spectra line (with some pullup cord type trim material on the end) makes the swoop cord. I made that mod to my suit for the 300-way after I found out the base was slower than most 20-ways I've been on.

Another alternative is the swoop cord "belt" - it's a belt that goes under your jumpsuit around your waist. Works for some people but tends to ride up.

[billvon 3,063]

>Heavy people just like floaty people need to learn to fly their
> boddies and adjust their body positions to fall relative to the
> formations BEFORE they start claiming that the formation isn't falling
> the way they want.

Agreed, but the laws of physics place limits on how slowly you can fall. There is not a technique in the world that will let a short 240 lb guy in a skintight suit stay with a 98mph base. That's where swoop cords, webbed gloves, high drag materials, sleeves etc come into play.

[robskydiv 0]

Thanks Billvon. Fastfallers need the support.
btw Please consider beginning a thead on your personal experience on the 300-way It would make for some great reading and btw, congratulations. Harry

[martz 0]

I'm just wondering how the swoop cord works on a RW suit. I don't know where to sew that

Martin

[robskydiv 0]

The swoop cords on my Crater suit had initially been attatched to one point on at the end of the seam. My rigger made a channel and sewed it along the seam attaching some bungee at the end. And now, I can stay up with the light people. Swoop cords and Afterburners Rawk.