Student Jumping with booties

[PhreeZone 20]

John, at what level were you put in Booties? Was it for your tandems? Was it your first AFF? Was it at jump 10 or was it after more jumps then that?

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[Ron 10]

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How does MY lack of a rating affect the decision of my instructor

YOUR lack of a rating makes YOUR opinion on how to train students LESS than people who have ratings.

MY fourth freefall was an 8way. My Instructors thought that was OK....And I did fine. But that does not make that right either.

This poll so far shows that most Instructors don't think its a god idea....So maybe the few that do think its agood idea should explain why they did it.\, not the many explain to the few.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1266260#1266260

84% think in general its a bad idea.....Huh, I wonder why?

I stand by the general rule that its a bad idea...The few who don't seem to be the ones that should explain.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,026]

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How does MY lack of a rating affect the decision of my instructor

YOUR lack of a rating makes YOUR opinion on how to train students LESS than people who have ratings.

.

You are avoiding the question again. I haven't expressed an opinion, I have stated a fact. My instructor, who is VERY experienced as chief instructor at one of the busiest drop zones in the country, decided to put a student (me) out in a bootie suit on jump 11.

Please tell me why he was wrong, and I will pass on the message.

PS a reply of "because I am an expert with a rating" is not a satisfactory explanation.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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You are avoiding the question again

As do you all the time.

In fact I have NOT avoided the question. I have stated I and MANY others think it is a bad idea.

Just because you did it does not mean it is smart or good. As I said my 4th freefall was an 8way. I did it, my Instructor thought it was OK, the DZO thought it was OK, no one died, but that does not mean it was a a good idea.

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out in a bootie suit on jump 11.

You never said number 11 before. Where you off AFF? Did you already prove you were not going to spin?

Just becasue it has been done, does not make it a good idea.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 2,026]

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You are avoiding the question again

As do you all the time.

In fact I have NOT avoided the question. I have stated I and MANY others think it is a bad idea.

Just because you did it does not mean it is smart or good. As I said my 4th freefall was an 8way. I did it, my Instructor thought it was OK, the DZO thought it was OK, no one died, but that does not mean it was a a good idea.

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out in a bootie suit on jump 11.

You never said number 11 before. Where you off AFF? Did you already prove you were not going to spin?

Just becasue it has been done, does not make it a good idea.

Since you are an instructor, just maybe you recall that anyone with under 25 jumps is a student (see thread title).

I didn't do AFF. My instructor, who is very experienced, thought it was a good idea. Who are you to say he was wrong?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ron 10]

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My instructor, who is very experienced, thought it was a good idea. Who are you to say he was wrong?

Who are you to say he was right?

My Instructor thought me doing an 8way on my 4th freefall was a good idea. I did it since I didn't know better, but that does not mean it was a good idea.

BTW if you wish to continue this BS pissing contest...PM it. You clearly are gonna hold to your thoughts (even though you have no reference other that you did it, and just cause you did it does not mean it was OK...Reference my "I" having me do an 8 way on my 4th freefall)

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[airborne82nd 0]

after all the info i recieved and read i changed my mind i think i was wrong about students with booties.

my son who is 15 will be 16 in april. ( hes been scubadiving since he was 10 ssi and has been to 140 ft doesnt panic very aware ect..) he has all ready watched cut away, pack and fly like a pro, and a few others he rotates through the videos. he is learning how to pack and can almost pack a rig ( easy one to pack )

he has been up on the jump plane twice and observed and he talks to everyone about landing patterens ect.. he also takes pictures of landings.

he has 24 minutes of tunnel time and we hope he has 2 hours by the time he does aff.

i told him we will get him a tunnel suit or student suit first for a while no booties.

i am afraid botties woudlnt be good for my son till he had some good jumps and stability under his belt/

so in view of the debate i was wrong about booties and students

[Ron 10]

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after all the info i recieved and read i changed my mind i think i was wrong about students with booties.

Takes a big man to admit he was mistaken.

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i told him we will get him a tunnel suit or student suit first for a while no booties

You can get the suit WITH booties, but just tuck them in till he is ready for them....If he has 2 hours of tunnel before he starts AFF...His Instructor may have him use them sooner...Thats his Instructors call.

Get the booties, but tuck them in. It sucks to buy suits at around 200 a pop.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,990]

>>You are avoiding the question again

>As do you all the time.

Cut it out guys, this isn't Speakers.

[rehmwa 2]

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>>You are avoiding the question again

>As do you all the time.

Cut it out guys, this isn't Speakers.

Yup, and Ron requested John take it to PM's.

As far as the question goes for Airborne82 and his lucky son (to be introduced to the sport so soon). Best to get the booties now with the suit purchase (and inside grippers, etc) as the mod is not great and another suit is expensive.

In the tunnel? With or without booties as he is able to maintain stability - it doesn't hurt for the kid to wear them, just not the first time if he's learning basic stability - so tape them and get to them once ready. you can still fly mantis without booties.....

Once on student status, tape up the booties at first and once the instructor is comfortable (he should be quickly if the son is pre-trained in the tunnel and not doing anything stupid). I don't see why the instructor can't use his discretion to let him wear the booties fairly early. Anyway, the first few jumps are not about center-point turns and points, they are about: stability, altitude awareness, and landing safe. Even turns and flips are more about stability or regaining stability than actually making the manuvers, so booties aren't important for a while.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Jethers203 0]

This thread has been kind of funny, but I feel that booties aren't the best thing for a student to start out with. They should learn the basics first and become accustomed to various new things one at a time.

Anyway, I wanted to write and say that I didn't start to jump a Bootie suit until I had over 600 jumps. Not because I felt I wasn't ready, but because I was flying pretty damn great with my suit without booties and didn't really feel the need.

However, once I got my new suit with booties, I noticed the biggest change in my flying for the better. Booties make things a lot easier and really give you extra power on many maneuvers. I can really crank points with this suit and I feel that it is because I learned how to crank points without booties that made it more effective.

Just my 2 cents.

Clint D-24352