skychic68 0 #1 February 4, 2003 So, I've been in the market for a Spectre. Came across a really good deal for a 97. I know the recommendations are 155 max exit weight. I meet that exactly! Does anyone load their spectre more than a 1.5? I don't want to over do it on a 7 cell. I have the experience, but I also want to keep safety first. I currently fly a 99 crossfire. Anyone out there?????Que sera sera Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #2 February 4, 2003 QuoteI have the experience, but I also want to keep safety first. I currently fly a 99 crossfire. just wondering, why do you want to take a step down in performance?? otherwise, i have seen a spectre jumped at like 1.7, and the guy liked it a lot. but i can't say from personal experience, i have never jumped one. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #3 February 4, 2003 I wouldn't think there'd be a worry about it blowing up or anything bad like that. Not sure you're going to like the flight characteristics of it though, especially if you really like flying your Crossfire. Any chance you can put a couple jumps on it (or another 97) before you buy it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #4 February 4, 2003 The Spectre is a ground hungry canopy when flown at a high wing loading, and it doesn't have near the bottom end flare power of the Crossfire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #5 February 4, 2003 I'm not exactly sure why you would want one, but to each his own, I had a team mate go from a spectre to a Xfire and he never looked back, but to answer your question he was loading it that high with no issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 February 4, 2003 QuoteThe Spectre is a ground hungry canopy when flown at a high wing loading . . . Could you define, "ground hungry"? Although the rate of decent changes with a change in wing loading the actual glide slope (under no wind conditions) does not. Yes, you get to the ground faster with a more heavily loaded canopy, but that's true of all canopies. So, exactly what do you mean when you say, "ground hungry"?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #7 February 4, 2003 QuoteSo, exactly what do you mean when you say, "ground hungry"? I jump a spectre and I call it ground hungry too. Drenaline's definition of ground hungry: opening at the same altitude and almost at the same place than the one jumping the stilleto with higher wingloading and the other one jumping the sabre and not been able to make it back to the spot while they made it back and laughed at me. I might be a bad canopy pilot or the spectre is a ground hungry canopy. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #8 February 4, 2003 QuoteI might be a bad canopy pilot or the spectre is a ground hungry canopy. i wouldn't call it ground hungry, or say your a bad canopy pilot. 7 cell canopies have high sink rate than 9 cells. but i guess for you, it could be ground hungry. for me, a ground hungry canopy is one that has a long recovery arc. like a stilleto, or stectre don't have long recovery arc's compared to a crossbraced, or crossfire. but 1 person's definition of "ground hungry" can always be different than someone else's. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 February 4, 2003 I load my Spectre, and my sabre (when Slappie is finished with it!) at around 1.6. Spectre performance is 'spirited', however I find it similar in 'hungriness' to my sabre. At this loading, it will bite you if you screw up. I don't go for performance landings, per se, so I guess there are characteristics of this canopy I have not yet explored. I have about 900 jumps on canopies at this loading, and the spectre is my #1 choice. I have no experience of crossfires, other than I hear they have similar deployment characterictics, ie soft and fluffy, with predictable on heading openings. PM me if you want to chat about anything. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #10 February 4, 2003 Quote opening at the same altitude and almost at the same place than the one jumping the stilleto with higher wingloading and the other one jumping the sabre and not been able to make it back to the spot while they made it back and laughed at me. That's the difference between a 7 cell and a 9 cell. Sabres and Stilettos have very shallow glide angles (someone correct me if my terminology is incorrect here), the Spectre has a steeper one. For long spots I found that hanging on a bit of rear risers shallows the glide angle on my Spectre, thus getting me further back than if I flew back at full flight. But it'll never improve to the point of being as shallow as a Stiletto. Easy fix to that problem... you'll almost always land on the dz with a Spectre if you just learn to spot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #11 February 4, 2003 Quote Easy fix to that problem... you'll almost always land on the dz with a Spectre if you just learn to spot I think I don't want to land on the spot, I've been landing so many times off spot that if I land on the spot they are going to charge me a case! HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #12 February 4, 2003 "Sabres and Stilettos have very shallow glide angles (someone correct me if my terminology is incorrect here), the Spectre has a steeper one. " Is glide angle inversely proportional to opening shock? -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #13 February 4, 2003 A 1.6 to 1 loaded Spectre should not misbehave, but I would be curious as to what you'd desire from its performance that you're not getting out of the Crossfire. If you want more stability/forgiveness, downsizing is not the way to get that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skychic68 0 #14 February 4, 2003 ActuallyBasically, this great deal on a 97 Spectre fell into my lap. That's why all the questions about the loading. I would prefer something slightly bigger, considering the feedback on the glide ratio etc, but what a deal!! Does anyone know if the glide or descent is more pronounced on a highly loaded 7 sell, or a perfomer like a Crossfire? If it is comparable in terms of that, then I may buy it. I know the Spectre is not a performer, but that is alright. I also want to be able to glide back from a bad spot and to land it with as little effort as possible. So, performance (swooping) is not a factor at all. Hit me with your feedback!!! Que sera sera Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 February 4, 2003 Video for RW, FF or Tandem? The only reason I ask is that if it's video for RW, then you should probably be deploying at breakoff and, well, the spot would really have to suck pretty bad to not make it back -- no matter what canopy you fly.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skychic68 0 #16 February 4, 2003 Video for tandems mostly. So, Maybe I will get it - - - or notIf anyone has any input on the glide comparisson btwn crossfire and spectre that would be great. Que sera sera Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #17 February 4, 2003 there is no comparison, the crossfire will out glide the spectre all day long. its the 9cell vs. 7 cell thing - aspect ratio difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #18 February 4, 2003 >Does anyone know if the glide or descent is more pronounced on a > highly loaded 7 sell, or a perfomer like a Crossfire? The crossfire will outglide the spectre under most wind conditions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #19 February 4, 2003 Quote Does anyone know if the glide or descent is more pronounced on a highly loaded 7 sell, or a perfomer like a Crossfire? If it is comparable in terms of that, then I may buy it. I know the Spectre is not a performer, but that is alright. I also want to be able to glide back from a bad spot and to land it with as little effort as possible. So, performance (swooping) is not a factor at all. I haven't jumped a Spectre at that wing-loading, but I'm typically between 150-160 out the door (depending on how much lead I'm wearing) and own both a Diablo 88 and a Triathalon 99. Both land fine at that wing-loading. The Spectre seems to have a flatter glide than either of those 2 canopies, and flying on rear risers I typically make it back as far as everyone else on a long spot. Heck, a month or so ago, I was the only person on my 8-way who made it back - they were all on 9-cells and I was on my Diablo. But doing so much CRW, I'm pretty good at getting every last ounce of lift out of my canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skychic68 0 #20 February 5, 2003 Thanks for your input. Do you like your Diablo? I had a 110 and thought the landings on it were crap!! Never did get that sucker going good. I really loved the responsiveness of the toggle input, but boy those landings. would up making an even trade with a Tri. The Crossfire is the best thing I've ever flown - hands down!!Que sera sera Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #21 February 5, 2003 Quote Do you like your Diablo? I had a 110 and thought the landings on it were crap!! Never did get that sucker going good. I really loved the responsiveness of the toggle input, but boy those landings. would up making an even trade with a Tri.! I get great swoops with my Diablo - I usuallut do a straight-in final on my front risers. Obviously its not going to swoop as far as a Cobalt or cross-braced or anything like that, but it landed me nice. The key is just to remember its a 7-cell. If you go too deep of brakes it'll kill your lift at the end. I think its got a smaller "range" where you can do the flattening out part of your flare - if you go past that you'll lose out on a lot of your lift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #22 February 8, 2003 QuoteCould you define, "ground hungry"? ...just got back from Boise, ID. Well, for me it means a poor glide ratio. I had a Spectre loaded at 1.3, and I have a Crossfire loaded at 1.4 right now. The Crossfire seems to glide flatter in full flight, and it also has a more responsive flare, leveling incrementally to toggle inputs whereas the Spectre at 1.3 responded only to a deep stroke. I also had a Spectre at 1.0, and it was very easy to land not requiring such a deep stroke. The PD wing loading table was a pretty good benchmark, IMHO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #23 February 8, 2003 QuoteI am putting together a second rig and was looking for something with soft opening for video, either an additional Crossfire or a Spectre i routinely dump in a full-on track under my Samurai150 with a top-mounted camera and it opens nice & soft every time.... Spectres are great on openings for camera as well, but see below. Quote Does anyone know if the glide or descent is more pronounced on a highly loaded 7 sell, or a perfomer like a Crossfire? 7cells aren't built for glide.. it's an aspect ratio thing -- elliptical 9+cells are tough to beat (depending on trim, yada yada). That being said, 7cells are generally less prone to trouble on opening (heading, spinning, etc), so that's another factor to consider with a camera on your head. I'm in love with 9cell landings and i have one that opens great, so that's fine for me. Quote I also want to be able to glide back from a bad spot and to land it with as little effort as possible. probably want a 9cell, or a lighter-loaded 7cell... but hey, if you can try before you buy, do so and see how you like it. A Spectre should treat you well, though also consider you'll be flying 2 very different types of canopies, and they'll probably require quite different flare styles -- something else to pay attention to.. would suck to be flying your 7cell and flare it like your 9cell... good luck! Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
