Camcorder dangers....

[jose 0]

Ok, so I am going to start flying camera. Just got a PC-110 with a Hawkeye and Bonehead D-box. Cameye II to boot. I plan on just jumping with buddies to have fun, what I get on film is what I get.
I freefly sit and working on HD, but suck at HD.

My question is what are the hazards that I need to know about this discipline. You always see that people talk about how it adds to the inherent dangers of jumping.

The only things that I can think of is lack of altitude awareness, I have a Pro-Dytter, and riser strikes.

Also, I have friends that turn their head a little during deployment to lessen the chance of riser strikes. Good idea or not?

Help me out here guys, I am going to do this, but I want to start out with all safety in mind.

[RichM 0]

The most significant danger is one of lines becoming entangled around the camera/helmet attachment point. It is a rare occurence but it can happen - If there is a possibility of this you should seriouysly consider fitting a cutaway mechanism for the helmet and practising how to cut it away. If I remember correctly 5 fatalities in 2001 were experienced camera flyers going in because of entanglement with camera gear or newton ring sights(?)

I jump a 2k Composites FF helmet. The design makes it virtually impossible for lines to become entangled with the camera. It's an awesome helmet.

Rich M

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Hey Brad

Going to start flying a camera soon? Cool ... so will I. I'm going to start flying with an empty dbox attached to my Hawkeye and then once I'm comfortable with the possible riser strikes I'll be adding the camera.

Hope to jump with you again when either:

1) You visit your bro in Colorado.
2) I visit my family in Vancouver.
3) We meet again at Eloy.

Steve (a future team Bella member and current Bella impersonator)

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[skyboyblue 0]

I hope you have forgotten to update your profile in a long time because 70 jumps is no time to begin camera flying. period.

[PhreeZone 20]

I'd advise not flying with an empty dbox for a few reasons: Since there is no camera inside it allows snag points to go unfilled. Just mounting it causes increadible desire just to jump the camera. An empty Dbox (new BH style) head down can severly distort your flying and since you are still learning HD, avoiding distractions like a rudder steering you around is a good thing. Untill you have a second helmet I'd advise not mounting a camera. There will be jumps that you don't want the extra hassel of a camera or the distractions of a dbox on. (Every new canopy I try I don't jump my camera, hop an pops at 2k are pointless as well) Mounting the dbox means lining the camera up just to correctly drill the holes, you should be 100% ready to jump the camera at that point.

I do advise getting used to the chin cup and stuff as soon as possible before jumping the camera, and I also reccommend doing some lurking jumps where you are doing nothing but pretending to sight things in the whole jump with a mark on the goggles or something... anything to get used to the distraction and pressue to get the shot.

Safe flying...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I wasn't sure how an empty dbox would effect the aerodynamics (it did cross my mind). What about taping up the lens hole? I just thought it might be an idea to have the bulk without the weight to see what riser strikes might be like. But if it's not advised, then I won't do it.

I know I still need to work on my free fly consistency (especially head down) before I know I'm ready to fly a camera.

PS: I am already jumping with the chin cup and I like it.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[AndyMan 7]

Unless your dz.com profile is wickedly out of date, and you have significantly more then 70 junps, I would not even consider jumping with a camera, or any camera related accesories, for a good long time.

The fact that you need to ask what the dangers are, is a good indication that you aren't ready for them.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just honest.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[jose 0]

Quote

The fact that you need to ask what the dangers are, is a good indication that you aren't ready for them.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, just honest.
_Am

Huh, you wernt trying, but you were successful.

Ya know, it really pisses me off by people like yourself that tell me I'm not ready by the mere fact that I asked what dangers are associated. So, I shouldn't have asked? I am supposed to know what I need to know about a disipline before I start, right?
So what the hell is your problem with me educating myself prior to starting.

As far as I am concerned, I am smart for asking seasoned photographers what I need to know about flying camera.

I guess you knew all you needed to know prior to starting new disciplines without asking or educating yourself on something you have never attempted.

Maybe your "witty" sig should say "I lack tact".

[skyboyblue 0]

Its not that you asked, Its the fact that you have 70 jumps. You said you are working on head down and whatever else. well do you think putting a camera on your head will automatically make you a better HD flyer? Perhaps you should be asking how to do HD first and then camera work second. I for one, would not want to be in front of your camera going head down if you don't know how to fly yourself, let alone a camera. Learn how to save your life first. My life may depend on it.

I'm with andyman on this. I started around 200, and I'm better now. But I shouldn't have started that early myself.

[jose 0]

Well, you have made the assumption that I was going to start trying to fly camera in the HD position when I am still learning HD. It is your fault for assuming such and not asking.

I do plan on starting camera in the sit, but that is not why I think that his response was inappropriate.

If you read my reply again, because you seem to have completely missed the point, you will see that it is his Sky-God attitude that if I have to ask, I shouldn't even be considering flying camera. That kind of reasoning is assinine, and if is that is how he truely thinks, I could care less on what he has to say, or anyone that thinks like that for that matter.

Like your mother said, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. Same applies here, if you are not contributing to the intention of the thread, why the hell post?

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

Ya know, it really pisses me off by people like yourself that tell me I'm not ready by the mere fact that I asked what dangers are associated. So, I shouldn't have asked? I am supposed to know what I need to know about a disipline before I start, right?
So what the hell is your problem with me educating myself prior to starting.

My problem, quite simply, is that I don't like dead skydivers.

I'm not going to help you, nor encourage you to do something that I think is incredibly foolish. Not only will I not help you, I'll tell you that what you're doing is (in my opinion), a VERY BAD CHOICE.

It's certainly not the case that you're going to kill yourself the minute you put a camera on, I'm not saying that. There are a few camera flyers (some very good) that started with few jumps. However, none of them say that it was a good idea.

When I had 70 jumps, I thought I was pretty good. And, if I can blow my own horn, I WAS pretty good. Hell, I did my first 18 way RW jump when I had 82 jumps. I was cocky, and confident - and to some degree, it was appropriate. People told me, I WAS that good. Probably just like you.

Does that mean that any super 70 jump wonder, the guy who after every jump people run up to him and say "You are SO GOOD! Are you SURE you have only 70 jumps?" - that guy - does he have nearly the skills required to keep himself alive when he's got a camera on his head and something goes wrong? Hell no. He's just now learning the skills to keep himself alive on a relatively basic skydive, never mind one where he's flying camera.

Am I being elitist? No. I don't think so. If you search back through these forums, you'll see many examples of me and others answering questions from people just like you - with one exception. Most 70 jump wonders who post here asking about camera flying phrase it in the future - something that they want to do eventually. You started off by stating, matter of factly, that you are GOING to start flying camera. RIGHT NOW. That is something that I will not help you do. It is something that I will discourage you from doing, strongly. Others may choose to help you. I won't.

There are people here who will disagree with the tone of my post. That's fine, this is not a popularity contest. It is not my intention to sound like an asshole, but if telling you this makes me one, so be it.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[quade 4]

Guys . . . rules . . . simmer down now.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Jose --

I have a couple of articles on my web site HERE that you may want to look at with regard to the dangers of camera flying.

Ya might wanna have a glance at them and decide if you're ready for it or not.

I normally would suggest having about 200 jumps and a USPA D-license before strapping on a camera, but obviously that's up to you.

No, there's nothing really magical about 200 jumps or the D-license other than it ensures that you've actually gotten through the majority of the information you really know to save your life in the sport and that flying your body is somewhat second nature.

Like the dark side of the force, once you strap a camera on your head, forever will it control your destiny. It would be a shame if you limited yourself from some experiences because you had that camera on your head already.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Jiggs 0]

I am not the fun police but more jumps is definetly the go, no matter how good you are your not ready at that level.

Other than safety aspect; you will probably get crap footage with such low jumps numbers. Get more jumps then do it.

One of the best camera people I know knew told me that before I could be a good camera-flyer I had to be a good rel worker. (Regardless of discipline you need to be flying relative to get anything worthwhile)
So I put away my camera gear and just refocussed on 4ways. The result far better footage because I have much better awarness now and I am where I need to be without conscious thought.

"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."

"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus

[jose 0]

Quade,

Thanks. That is the kind of information that I am looking for. I also appreciate the way that you approach matters that are controversial, unlike some. I plan on taking all information that I recieve into consideration when I start flying camera. I am just glad that someone was able to actually put some information out there. Thanks.