AndyMan 7 #1 January 27, 2003 While being a long way from being usable to us, this is interesting. A hard disk based camcorder. Current crapiness is a relatively small disk (1.5 gigs), which limits video quality and recording time... but still, a cool idea and good progress. http://www.samsungelectronics.com/news/digital_media/com_news_1042258779765_001300.html _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #2 January 27, 2003 The form factor is remarkably similar to an Ip5/7; coincidence or intentional? QuoteCurrent crapiness is a relatively small disk (1.5 gigs), which limits video quality and recording time "More than an hour of high-quality footage" Skydiver's currently make do (and are quite happy, I think) with 1-1.5 hour tapes so time doesn't appear to be an issue here and I think the 640x480 refers to the screen, not the actual format of the recording so quality remains to be seen. Is MPEG4 the same compression used in Sony MicroMV cameras. There is some discussion as to the quality of this format? The biggest question is, will a hard disk hold up to the rigours of freefall? Let alone walking down the street. But you are right, good progress! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 January 27, 2003 QuoteThe biggest question is, will a hard disk hold up to the rigours of freefall? Let alone walking down the street. I already have an email out to them inquiring about this. MOST hard drives are only spec'ed up to a certain atmospheric pressure. Typically 10,000 feet MSL.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #4 January 28, 2003 Quote"More than an hour of high-quality footage Until they define "high quality", I'm very sceptical. Isn't 5 minutes of raw DV about 800 MB? I'm not up on the compresion ratio of MPG4, but I can't imagine that it's THAT much better then the compression on DV...? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 January 28, 2003 Mpeg 4 -can- be pretty good, but you're right, it all depends on what level they're talking about.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #6 January 28, 2003 I just ran a little test...I have no idea how valid this may be in the context of the camcorder mentioned...Using Quicktime Pro, I converted a short dv file of 7.5 mb to an MP4 file. The MP4 file was 660kb...but definitely poorer quality. It got very blocky. I think that MP4 will compress information a lot but I haven't been impressed with the videos I've compressed using Quicktime.I have converted a lot of music to MP4 files (AAC) and they are quite a bit smaller than even a 256 sample rate mp3 but sound much better.I edited to add a couple of screen shots...it was a rough day here doing Play-doh animation with my 3 & 5 year olds Birth.jpg is MP4, birth-dv.jpg is the DV capture. -- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 January 28, 2003 The deal with any compression standard, is that it's tunable to how far you want things actually compressed. The rate of compression and file quality varies withtin a compresion format. For example, you can run at a very high level of compression, and get a really crappy image - like the one you posted. Or, you can run at a very low level of compression, and have a nearly perfect image. File size and image quality is a direct trade-off. At 1.5 gigs, I suspect that you'll be able to have about 10 minutes of DV quality video, or an hour and a half of crap you wouldn't want your dog to see. This is probably even selectable on the camera. Only time will tell, though. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #8 January 28, 2003 "Is MPEG4 the same compression used in Sony MicroMV cameras. There is some discussion as to the quality of this format?" Similar, the sony MV cams use MPEG2. The advantage of this type of compression system is that it can compress groups of pictures as well as individual frames / fields. So a greater compression ratio can be achieved with relatively small artefact (the blocky and blurred bits) effects. "640x480 refers to the screen" I would imagine those are the useable pixels, many compression systems 'like' mutiples of 16 (hence common sizes of 640 x 480, 320x240, etc) in their picture fields. There was a Sony minidvd cam a couple of years back, which I reckon never actually made it to Europe, this one sounds similar. The same firewire and edting issues will exist with this cam, ie you wonm't be able to firewire copy your friends' minidv footage, and vice versa. Analogue transfer will still be avialable, should you wish.....The blurb mentions an embedded RCA port, but no svhs outlet, also it makes no mntion of firewire, so you will have to get a USB2 card to enable any sort of 'lossless' editing.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #9 January 28, 2003 This could be interesting... Sure it doesn't do firewire, etc... The non-linear storage is the really intriguing thing, to me. It could allow us to capture footage from our cameras faster than we can using a playback and capture method. Ideally, you would download the footage (segments already divided up into different file names), drag and drop them on a timeline, drop music on the timeline, set the audio fades, tweak the cuts and dissolves, and export to DVD/SVCD in less time than it takes to actually watch the raw footage... Hmm... Where's that Sony rep when you need her??? The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 January 28, 2003 The only fly in the ointment is that it's USB. 1.any Gig of data over a USB connection is gonna take a while.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #11 January 28, 2003 Firewire would have been better for most of us. The USB 2.0 standard claims faster speeds than Firewire, but the way the bus works is different. Because of this, unless the camera is the only device on the USB controller, the bandwidth becomes shared - even if the other devices aren't using any of the available bandwidth. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #12 January 29, 2003 "The only fly in the ointment is that it's USB." And its a different compression system than minidv, so if you mix footage from different cams in say a boogie tape, you will be rendering for ever before you even start. It will be inherently lower quality than Dv avi, but the on-board nonlinear elements look like they have interesting potential. The Sony one that I talked about above had simple on-board editing. Very useful for tandem guys, as you would have your 'stock mix' ready, in the cam, and then you very quickly drop in the client's footage.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #13 January 29, 2003 The problems with the Sony MD camcorder was the capacity (less than 15 minutes at 640x480 30fps) and there was no computer interface. The capacity limit kept mainstream consumers from buying (which made the demand too low to keep marketing it), and the lack of a computer/camera-to-camera interface helped keep it out of skydiving. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #14 January 29, 2003 Aha, so thats what happened to it.Thanks Cajones. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
