pd190 0 #1 March 6, 2003 Just wondering if anyone has designed and built an emergency cutaway system for a Hanson style. I have some ideas , but would like to get everyones input. (pictures of a design would help) I'm getting a new helmet for the season. (Not the best but for the price it works) I'm also looking into an emergency recovery system. Not that I want to cut my helmet away, but if I do, anyone designed a recovery system? I'm thinking about some kind of "static line" system that attaches the helmet to a pilot chute. Here's my idea, you guys tell me if I'm nuts...(not a completely thought through idea yet) Attach the bridle line of a NC PC to the helmet. Have it routed into a pocket in the rear closing panel of the helmet. Inside that pocket is a small deployment bag containing the PC. The deployment bag is attached to the back collar of a jumpsuit with an RSL type connector. When activated, the deployment bag stays attached to the jumpsuit and deploys the PC attached to the camera helmet. Hopefully, this will allow the helmet to impact the earth with a controlled fall rate. It could possibly save the camera, maybe even the helmet. any ideas or thoughts???? The only thing I can think of is now I've just added about 50,000 other things that can go wrong and get into the mess. HMMMMM, maybe this isn't a good idea after all.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #2 March 6, 2003 I'd be a bit worried about a premature of the helmet-chute but I've often thought about the same thing. It can't be that hard can it? Post pictures if you do it! Gus OutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #3 March 6, 2003 What happens if it deploys mid skydive? using an RSL like that you'll forget about it once while taking the helmet off on the ground and it will open, or in the plane on go arounds and stuff if you take the helmet off and forget to remove the RSL first thats a major issue. Imagine the thing opening as you are on the camera step and pulling. Helmets seem to fall at about 60 mph in freefall with cameras so you have to decide if its worth the risk for it to accidently open when its not to, or the possility of the PC properly working and saving the camera. Personally... my camera while its expensive it desposible if it means saving my life with no recovery system.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #4 March 6, 2003 Why not attach the helmet-chute release system to the helmet's cutaway mechanism? That way you're not physically attached to its rsl. If you could find some way of ensuring that the only way the helmet-chute is released is if you cutaway the helmet and vica verca then you're laughing. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #5 March 6, 2003 I don't like the sound of your design. d-bag on the jumpsuit, and connector links etc....I think you may be asking for trouble. Okay, in days of old, a very popular camera helmet was one designed by 'adventure' camera pioneer Leo Dickinson (of Wally Gubbins fame). It had a drogue mounted within the crown area of the helmet. It sort of acted as padding. The rest of the helmet padding was held in place by its own 'springiness' if you see what I mean. The cutaway handle on the chin strap release was attached to the drogue deployment bag. This was actually quite neat as there was no exterior connections and you could take the helmet on and off pretty easily, there were no external bridles etc that might activate the drogue and strangle you in freefall. I'm not sure if it would save your camera, but it might not hurt whoever it landed on as badly. The bridle from the drogue should attach to the helmet at the front-centre otherwise the helmet will impact cameras down. I've tried searching for a reference to this helmet for you, but to no avail....It actually had a number of features that were way ahead of their time, twin audible mounts, integrated sng minimised ringsite, and a stills mount that could be rotated in freefall, forehead mount for portrait or landscape shots. Plus the aforementioned cutaway on the chinstrap that was linked to the drogue. Downside was that it was pretty ugly and the shell was made of HDPE, which is hard to paint (similar to protec shell material). Nobody actually wants to cut their helmet away, but if you are going to jump camera you had better be prepared to ditch it, and without a second thought. You have the rest of your life to figure out what will happen if you don't chop it in an entanglement. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iam 0 #6 March 6, 2003 I've seen something similar to what nac is describing albeit a bit more simple. The pc just replaced the top lining of the protec it was in. I tried it on and it was quite comfortable. There was no deployment system. The owner of the helmet hope that it may deploy itself it it was tumbling groundward. Dont kbow if it would ever work but the idea seems logical. Ian p.s. I've never seen a cutaway with a helmet attached to it, but would it not fall pretty slowly anyway due to the drag from the main canopy if it was still snagged?"Don't ever knock on deaths door, just ring the bell and run away - it really pisses him off" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayhawkJumper 0 #7 March 6, 2003 I know that camera helmet entanglements are a big thing to consider, but I really don't think a recovery system is needed. There are very few that actually happen and if you do get tangled, I doubt you will care about your camera at that point. Be really careful about what you do at pull time. And if you really want to protect your camera, insurance might be a better way than a recovery chute. I pay State Farm $80/year and they will replace my cameras no questions asked due to loss, breakage, fire, theft, dropping it, pouring beer on it, etc.... I have heard some people say they've had trouble getting this insurance recently though, but its worth checking on. If you do check on it, ask an agent about "single-item insurance" and if you fly tandems, DON'T mention you use it for making money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 March 6, 2003 QuoteWhat happens if it deploys mid skydive? Storing a spring-loaded pilot chute inside the helmet would negate this risk. You could then attach the pilot chute release to your helmet cuttaway, having it automatically deploy. The only remaining issue is figuring out how to make it comfortable having a spring ontop of your head. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pd190 0 #9 March 6, 2003 Thanks guys for the advice and info....Here are some more ideas... I totally agree that this system is questionable. Just thought that I would throw it out there to see if anyone had thoughts. To answer some questions... The PC and deploy bag would be placed in the inside of the rear "clamshell" of the helmet. The idea was, when emer cutaway was activated, the rear entry cover would come off, and the PC would deploy from bag. You guys are right, premature deployment would be bad. But I figured if it was enclosed as part of the inside of the helmet, it would lessen the possibility. I've got the camera insured already, but a little extra "insurance" can't hurt. Don't like the spring idea.......but if anyone can come up with a design or tips, I would like to learn more about this. I'm definately still interested in any emergency cutaway ideas for the helmet itself. I've got some idea of what I want to do, but a tested and proven method would definately be a help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jose 0 #10 March 13, 2003 I have been searching for a cut away system that would be clean and effective in the event of an emergency. I have found a few that I would like to try with a older helmet that I have. I only have one concern with every design. What happens if you have to ditch this thing above preplanned pull alti? Whether you are in a freefly big way, or just a 2 way, there is a risk that the helmet that is under "canopy" could have a collision with another jumper in freefall. End result....bad shit. So what to do about this. I have thought about having the drogue pop out at 3000 AGL, but that would take some serious coin to create a system that would do that. I love the idea of a controlled descent for my precious helmet, but I dont think that I can risk the lives of others just to save it. Has anyone else had this same concern, and what ideas do you have for a preplanned deployment system? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #11 March 13, 2003 Hi everyone, I too am a camera flyer that had similar concerns. My helmet has a built in cutaway system. Check out the lightweight Paralight camera helmet. Originally I bought this set up because I was living in Hawaii and wanted a set up that would be open and not claustrophobic. Even though it may not be the design you are looking for, it does have a handy dandy safety feature, a mechanism that allows you to grab a handle which when pulled releases the entire system from your head and allows you to jettison the entire thing. This is the other feature that attracted me to this system. The only thing I do not like about this system is that it does not provide much protection for your actual camera equipment but maybe you can somehow use the idea to modify your own system. The helmet is sold by Skydance Photography and usually can be found advertised in Parachutist. So far I am very happy with mine, it is simple yet effective and I feel safer knowing that I can get rid of it if need be. Good luck and feel free to ask me any questions. Blue skies, Jen O'Hara AFF/I & VideographerRoy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #12 March 13, 2003 I"ve been thinking that when Cypri start to get to the age where they aren't going to be used in rigs, that they might be set up to deploy emergency chutes on camera helmets. I lost my pro-tec with both a pro-track and a dytter at 14K about a year ago (both instruments impacted without damage) but the terminal speed of the helmet alone was only about 60mph. I think that's too slow to set off a cypres. I think that jumping camera means having a $2500 deductible on surviving a helmet entanglement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 March 13, 2003 "I"ve been thinking that when Cypri start to get to the age where they aren't going to be used in rigs, that they might be set up to deploy emergency chutes on camera helmets." Nah, I'd like to think they would be used in conjunction with water bags and tubes, to replace skyballs, and vladiballs..I'm still not convinced having a pilot chute attached to your helmet is a good idea. Cypres not safe enough to have on your back? Simple, put it on your head...No thanks Deuce man....I'm thinking broken necks and strangulation. Considering the frequency of helmet cutaways, I'll still take my chances.....But then again, I'm jumping a ragged out PC7 on a Gath at the moment. I'm thinking that this is a prime example of the best form of mitigation is avoidance. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #14 April 29, 2003 Simpler solution I've seen is just to have a regular pilot chute folded up and placed inside of the helmet (on the top0 and attached inside the helmet. when you chop the helmet I'm sure it will tumble, the pilot chute will grab air and PRESTO! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 April 29, 2003 You've actually seen somebody with something like this installed on his camera helmet?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #16 April 29, 2003 Yep, pilot chute folded up inside the crown of a Protec, looked pretty foolproof to me as long as you don't take the helmet off while the door is open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #17 April 30, 2003 "You've actually seen somebody with something like this installed on his camera helmet?" I have Paul, as I described above the Leo Dickinson camera helmet was an early model purpose built helmet and it came with a built in pilot chute drogue thingie as standard. The drogue was deployed by the cutaway system. These helmets were very popular here in the UK about 10 years ago. It was the first 'commercial' helmet I ever jumped. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alain 0 #18 April 30, 2003 any chance that the bridle might get arround your neck? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #19 May 1, 2003 I have a Leo Dickinson helmet in my garage; haven't jumped it for years. I never cut it away. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #20 May 1, 2003 Care to post some pictures of it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #21 May 1, 2003 "any chance that the bridle might get arround your neck?" Soembody poke Howard with a stick so he posts some pics....Sorry H, just joshing... From memory it would be extremely unlikely to get a bridle around your neck, unless it worked loose and somehow came out from inside the crown of the helmet. I suppose it could happen if you tried to chop it head down, which would be a bizarre helmet entanglement scenario. Again from memory the bridle was similar to a pull out system on rigs. The cutaway handle had a wee lanyard attached to a d-bag which housed the drogue, the drogue bridle was mainly stowed inside the d-bag, and was attached to the front forehead area of the helmet, the bridle routing was 100%internal. The cutaway handle first released the chinstraps, then deployed the drogue via the d-bag which remained attached to the cutaway handle. All this is from memory guys, I haven't jumped or closely examined a Leo since about 96, so some of these details maybe clouded by the onset of alzheimers. -------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #22 May 1, 2003 Yea, I guess I can dredge it out of my garage and make some pics. I abandoned it because it was not friendly to various cameras. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoobieCootie 0 #23 May 1, 2003 When I replaced my old pc, I had a feeling that I should not turn it into a toy for my niece. And I think my Optik could use one more mod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
