tandem gear

[riggerrob 643]

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cutting away on STRONG tandem rig automatically releases the drouge.

Some Vectors and Eclispes have a third drogue release ripcord that goes through the cutaway handle, releasing the drogue in the event of a cutaway. So that isn't particular to Strongs.

Hook

I have seen three-cable cutaway handles on Eclipse and Racer, but never on Vectors. Did I miss something?

[billbooth 10]

Well over 90% of all reserve uses on a Vector Tandem follow a cutaway. On the Sigma it's closer to 99.9%. So you really want to be sure that your canopy release system is as reliable as possible, don't you. When you add a third (drogue release) cable to the cutaway handle, you, at best, increase the force necessary to cutaway. (Due to increased housing friction) And at worst, you lower the reliability of your cutaway system. (If that third cable jams for any reason, you can't cutaway at all.) Increased complexity almost always leads to more malfunctions, and these three cable systems prove that point quite well. That's why Relative Workshop won't put a three cable system on any of our tandem rigs.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I have seen three-cable cutaway handles on Eclipse and Racer, but never on Vectors. Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything, I did. When I wrote that, I didn't actually go look at a Vector tandem rig, I only pictured it my mind. The rig is actually sitting in the living room, waiting for the Cypres to get back from Airtec. It is an Eclispe, not a Vector tandem rig( i pictured the wrong rig), my mistake. Sorry Bill.

Hook

[flipper 0]

Hi

Ive got around 350ish tandems....so im far from being expierenced....

I'm also strong rated.....in the 350 odd jumps I've had to chop twice....number 1 was broken lines on opening (mastermain 425) and number 2 was a blow up job....lots of lines broken, cells blown/torn...(set400) and a real unfrendly chute above my head... so got rid of it..

I agree the strong system dosnt look that good but i have found it to be ok...apart from the above it behaves itself...Never had any hassle from the reserve....in fact the reserves fly better than the mains

just my 2 cents worth

flipper

[riddler 0]

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in fact the reserves fly better than the mains

Is that as bad as it sounds? Doesn't sound like a good thing, but I'm not a TI, either.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[skydiverek 63]

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cutting away on STRONG tandem rig automatically releases the drouge.

Some Vectors and Eclispes have a third drogue release ripcord that goes through the cutaway handle, releasing the drogue in the event of a cutaway. So that isn't particular to Strongs.

Hook

Thanks for the info! I did not know about that...

[Sonicfreefly 0]

Just a quick hi and welcome to dropzone.com
Hopefully I'll see you at Pitt Meadows this summer.

[jeremyneas 0]

Noone yet gave you specifics on why they don't like Strong systems as compared to the other manufacturers.

1) The Main Reserve Ripcord and the alternate (the RSL) are on the same side. So an incompasitated arm would be in trouble.

2) The RSL doesn't have an extra hacky to help with the pull, you need a STRONG grip.

3) The main Ripcord and Instructor's Main ripcord are on the same side, same problem as the reserve.

4) The rig check is a tad more complex, making it easier to miss something in a rush.

5) The legstraps have snap links, instead of a leg straps like a sport rig. These snaps can jam up easily, and must be constantly checked and maintained. If one stays open, you could be opening with one strap, or NONE.

6) The SET canopy, I could write a book. Keep in mind that Strong doesn't allow foriegn chutes in their rigs, you need to use theirs. Icarus, and PD both vacume seal and laser cut their chutes, Strong (I believe) is still stacking and hot knifing them. SO ALL 'SETS' FLY DIFFERENTLY. Each one has a mind of it's own and different flying characteristics.

On this note, I was opened on a Sigma 395 and has a line over and CLEARED IT because of it's eliptical shape.

7) Wait till you see the reserve pin system!

8) Openings are not as predictible as all others. Strongs can bleed you on opening, Wear a frap!

If you have any more questions feel free to contact me at my email address.

If I had my choise and bought a Tandem Rig right now, it would be a Sigma (skyhook included ;) with a Icarus 365 Main, PD reserve.

Jeremy Neas
Rated on Strong
Vector
Sigma
Eclipse

This comment was strictly my opinion, and I know Strong has many variations in many rigs (that all look the same). I could be mistaken, please contact the manufacturer if you have any questions or concerns.

[riggerrob 643]

8) Openings are not as predictable as all others. Strongs can bleed you on opening, Wear a frap!

Yup!
Three years ago one of our instructors had to get his ear sewn back on, so we made hard shell helmets standard equipment for all tandem instructors.
Why was this an issue?
I thought that jumping bare-headed fell out of fashion during the 1990s.
But I thought that frappe hats fell out of fashion during the 1990s.
The same as jumping without a Cypres or audible altimeter fell out of fashion during the 1990s.

However I am going to publicly diasagree with you about SET 400s. The only problems we have had with SET400s were related to sloppy packing.

As for the reserve container .. I agree that they are not glamorous, but they work fine if properly maintained and not banged around too much.
As for the archaic handle locations on Strong tandem gear, well I complained to the factory for ten years and nothing changed and I got tired of listening to myself complain.

[jeremyneas 0]

I agree that sloppy packing will create most of the opening errors on a SET. But they are all different animals. We used to have twelve Strong rigs, six of which i would say flew well, the other six flew like crap if you didn't have them keyed in right.

Point being; if i only flew the six that were nice, i probably would only have good things to say about the canopy.

One thing I also didn't mention was that I didn't like the fact that all eight steering lines were attached to the toggles (as opposed to PD and Icarus' seperate landing toggles) Tends to wear out your arms by the end of a busy day.

But, I will concur that they are (but slowly phasing out) the workhorse of the industry. If Strong Ent. would just admit that other manufacturers have great ideas and integrate some to their system, their tandem system is going to die off like helmetless, cypressless skydivers!

Jeremy Neas
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[brettpobastad 0]

Bill

Has there been any incidents of the 'three cutaway cable system' causing any problems? I would submit that this type of system (such as the one on the Jump Shack tandem rig) is more likely to save someone than to cause a problem.

Respectfully

Brett Martin

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Has there been any incidents of the 'three cutaway cable system' causing any problems? I would submit that this type of system (such as the one on the Jump Shack tandem rig) is more likely to save someone than to cause a problem.

I read in the APF newsletter a tandem instructor, at pull time, could not reales the first drogue release, so he went for the second. He couldn't release it either. he attempted to cutaway, but could not. He then pulled the reserve. It was a Racer Tandem Rig. The drogue had orbited the tandem pair during drogue-fall, and the bridle wrapped/twisted around the excesses of the 3 drogure release ripcords, preventing them from being pulled along with the cutaway handle.

The third drogue release complicates the system as is there in the event the Instructor fails to pull the handles in the correct order. Good initial, and re-current training can prevent this (along with the Sigma) Geez Bill, you should put me on the pay roll

Hook