quade 4 #1 July 28, 2003 Ok, I know we can't agree even on a fair price for 8x10s, but what about other sizes? Here are some sizes & prices just to get going; 4x6 $4.00 5x7 $8.00 Wallets (4) $10.00 8x10 $17.00 11x14 $30.00 16x20 $40.00 20x30 $60.00 Anybody have any thoughts? Anybody have any "magic numbers" that seem to maximize both volume and profits?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 July 28, 2003 So, let's say you wanted to price based just on the square inches of the finished product. Let's take a base price of $20 for an 8x10. Do the other prices "feel" like they're actually in-line with market prices? $150 for a 20x30 seems quite a bit high to me, but in terms of actual paper and ink it's exactly proportional, yet, I don't see people paying that much more for that size of print or even half that much. Size in^2 Ratio Base Others 4x6 24 0.3 6 5x7 35 0.4375 8.75 8x10 80 1 20 20 11x14 154 1.925 38.5 16x20 320 4 80 20x30 600 7.5 150 quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #3 July 28, 2003 Here is my pricing structure... 4x6- $5 5x7- $10 8x10 - $20 11x14 - $35 16x20 - $45 20x30 - $75 It looks fairly close to yours, a little different, but hey, its a different market. I don't think there is a science that can be applied to pricing art, and it is not based on a relative size diffenence... more of what the market will bare and how mich time/effort I need to put in to differnt sizes (say larger prints that I can't do in house). JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #4 July 28, 2003 I appreciate you bringing this up. Folks on my DZ are just starting to come around to buying the digital pics from me, and it's been a struggle having everybody say "Hey, can you e-mail me a copy of that one?" and have to reply "Here's my damn shutterfly address, you can't get the thing printed any cheaper than that, so please just order them off my site!" Here's what Shutterfly charges regular members to develop their digital prints:' 5x7:$0.99 4 Wallets:$1.79 8x10:$3.99 11x14: $7.99 16x20: $17.99 20x30: $22.99 I know my naivete about being a commercial photographer can be annoying, but I really do appreciate the feedback. We incur the same costs to produce a wallet photo as we to to produce a 20 X 30. I don't understand the rationale behind charging more for bigger pictures. At a visceral level I understand that something that is made into a 20 X 30 probably has more intrinsic value, but my equipment and jump costs don't change. Thanks. JP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayhawkJumper 0 #5 July 28, 2003 Well you charge more for a 20x30 because the print costs more to make. I used to print all of my own photos, and I can tell you that when making a 20x30, you often need more expensive equipment and film to make it look presentable. It is also a great deal more work to print a 20x30 vs. a 4x6. The usual mark-up when your starting out is 200-300% of the print price. If your making your own prints, you just set your own prices. What should determine your prices is how much people are willing to pay for your pictures. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #6 July 28, 2003 It is really not that hard to shoot a picture that looks good at 8x10, but to shoot a picture that looks as good at 20x30... well, you original shot has to be on a differnet level to start with(or one must know how to get the most out of photoshop)... so it is more than just the costs involved in getting the shot, it is the skill involved in getting the shot, it is the overall quality of the shot that makes people want it in a larger size.... value or worth does not necessarliy equal cost. That being said, make sure you are accounting for ALL of your costs... Jumps Gear (Camera and Skydiving) Gear maintenance (Camera and Skydiving) Printing costs (Include your annual shtterfly fees) Computer and online costs Registration Fees (for special events) Lodging and Transportation (for special events) Etc... Also, if you look at both my and Q's pricing, as a % of mark up, larger prints get cheaper. It is more than just jumping out and biting the switch that gets the shot. JoshAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #7 July 28, 2003 QuoteWe incur the same costs to produce a wallet photo as we to to produce a 20 X 30. Not actually! Because (depending on your deal with Shutterfly) they charge you an additional 15% of the total order, by setting say $5 over wholesale regardless of size you're REALLY screwing yourself. Size Min Plus $5 Quan Total 15% Whlsl Profit 4x6: 0.49 5.49 5 27.45 4.1175 2.45 20.8825 5x7: 0.99 5.99 5 29.95 4.4925 4.95 20.5075 8x10: 3.99 8.99 5 44.95 6.7425 19.95 18.2575 Wallet: 1.79 6.79 5 33.95 5.0925 8.95 19.9075 11x14: 7.99 12.99 5 64.95 9.7425 39.95 15.2575 16x20: 17.99 22.99 5 114.95 17.2425 89.95 7.7575 20x30: 22.99 27.99 5 139.95 20.9925 114.95 4.0075 On an order of five 4x6 prints your total profit would be $20.88, but on an order of five 20x30 prints your profit would only be $4.00! So, um, ya gotta charge more as the size goes up . . . at least a little bit just based on profit margin.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #8 July 28, 2003 QuoteOn an order of five 4x6 prints your total profit would be $20.88, but on an order of five 20x30 prints your profit would only be $4.00! So, um, ya gotta charge more as the size goes up . . . at least a little bit just based on profit margin. Thanks, all. I agree that a perfect shot that does not require photoshopping or cropping is worth more. I guess I just kinda lock up on the fact that sometimes those only get sold as 4X6's. The increased percentage take as the shots get bigger explanation perfectly satisfies my auditor mind, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #9 July 29, 2003 Here is a ? what about High quality Digital shots, over film. We have a guy with a D10 here and he is selling his pics for a lot more than regular, and also charges $100 an hour for ground stills. Best thing is he doesn't have a developing charge and you can preview the pic before you buy it, a day filming landings can pay very well. But what do you think should be a fair charge? Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 July 29, 2003 Quote . . . and also charges $100 an hour for ground stills. Well, actually, that's not a bad price for high-quality commercial photography, but he'd have to be doing something pretty exceptional for me to agree to hire him at those rates. To be honest, I'd never thought about charging by the HOUR for shooting landings. By the photo seems to be the fairest, unless it was being paid by the event and not the individual.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #11 July 29, 2003 Yeah, I get lost on this one. I could see an event charge. Like being hired by a soccer league to cover youth teams, and then the parents buy the pics off the site. When my pictures start selling like hotcakes, I'll raise my rates. For now I'm happy with this: http://www.byronboogie.com/photo.php When I'm famous, I'll be brutal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #12 July 29, 2003 the only thing that seems out of line to me is the price of wallet prints. I would think that they'd be the lowest priced or at least closer to the price of the 4x6. Has anyone checked out, say, a portrait photographer or studio to see what their fees are? I know it's art and every market is different so that may not help, but may be worth finding the information as a reference when someone asks why your prints cost $XXXX dollars. matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #13 July 29, 2003 Well, you -do- get four (4) wallet size prints for your $10. I never really expected people to buy skydiving photos in that size, but maybe the ground shot portraits I sometimes take. Boyfriends, girlfriends, whatever. Shutterfly regular pricing has the wallets at $1.79 or 3.653 times the 4x6 price of $0.49. So, if I were to just use their scaling and based it off of my 4x6 price of $4 that would bump the wallets up to $14.61.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #14 July 29, 2003 I always thought of wallet prints as something to get people to buy other larger prints. For a couple dollars difference I don't think you'll find to many people concerned... so it's probably not worth me arguing. matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #15 August 1, 2003 We charge £10 for an undeveloped roll of film. What the punter does with it afterwards is up to them. How does it work stateside? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #16 August 1, 2003 Not everyone at my dz shoots stills with the video. From what I have seen, the ones that do hand off a finished roll to the customer and I don't think there is an extra charge for it. One videographer that posts here has, in addtion to video, a still SLR and a digi that he's started using recently. He's been handing each student a 4X6 print from some point in their jump, plane ride or such with their completed video. Just my $.02 from what I've seen at my small dz. matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #17 August 1, 2003 With stills we also give the "punter" the roll of undeveloped film. I think it's $65 for stills only of a tandem. If an upjumper wants stills it's usually slot + a jumpticket + the film. Same thing, hand off the roll after. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
