ixlr82 7 #1 September 4, 2003 Deuce wrote in a previous thread. "You have to wear a camera suit to be really effective at either tandem or 4-way video. Serious question. Why? What does the camera suit give you that you cannot do without and what is the down side, if there is one? I have just started filming tandems. On one I was working so hard to stay big, it was hard to get close. Would the camera suit help here? I have no problem going fast but with a 145 lb tandem master and 110 lb passenger I was stretched to the limit wearing a freefly suit. Also, does anyone make just a camera suit top ? __________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 September 4, 2003 Firefly makes just a camera top. Its what I use. Drag is nice and wings give you the ability to go through burbles and not fall. Down side is that too much drag makes it hard to go fast. There is a 4 way group I some times film that I'll tack 8-12 pounds of lead on with my wings to fall with them.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver51 0 #3 September 4, 2003 The wings allow you to adjust your fall rate but leave your arms and legs available to fly. If you can stay ahead of who you are videoing and get samll when then speed up then there shouldn't be a fall rate problem. Camera suits don't have to be baggy. You can get a tight fitting suit to fall fast if wings are all you need. For me at 6'1" and 200 lbs I can fall fast by getting small even with a some what baggy suit and slow down with the wings. Real small tandem passengers can be tough to keep up with sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #4 September 4, 2003 Wings aid alot in: 1) riding the burble over a 4-way team and not falling into them (lets you get great framing over the subject too) 2) maintaining your own air space on leading exits with a 4-way team. Without them you have to work ALOT harder not to hit the team on the hill (with either steep or flat formations coming out of the plane). 3) giving you range with lighter tandem subjects...like you mentioned. Also, with wings you can hang on them and get the face of that tandem that just won't look up at the camera...they're infatuated with the ground for some reason! 4) giving you much more range in the creative end of cameraflying. When you get the chance to snap some shots from all angles of a subject (whether it be larger groups or individuals). 5) allowing you to back fly under a formation (see Brad Hood's picture of the women's world record! :^) ) The list goes on. Freefly suits are cool...and I know some flyers who can use them in most situations....but when the wings are needed they put them on as well... Me...I use wings AND lead. Lets me keep up with the fast and furious 4-ways...and gives me the edge to fly close and personal. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #5 September 4, 2003 It's a fall rate issue. You are filming a 10 way, let's say. They are in a big long open accordion and they break into 5 2-ways and spin the peices. When that happens, their fall rate will usually increase dramatically. Any kinda peice turning thingie usually will speed up and if it's from a rafty kind of formation, opposed diamonds or something (which can be floaty) you have to adjust your fall rate, big-time. Then when they reform something where everybody is gripped up again, they will slow. You gotta have brakes so you don't either go through it or hit it. You have to move up and down relative to the formation to keep it framed, you have to do it fast. You need wings to do that. For tandems it's just a much better video if you are moving around fast, both horizontally and vertically. Without a wingsuit, like you said, with light pairs you're so stretched out you can barely move, and it's impossible to angle back to get that shot from below without backsliding (some fliers can do it, but they are really, really talented). Plus, one of the coolest shots on a tandem is a pop-up. Once the exit is over and you've gotten your first close-up, you open up the wings and get a shot looking down on the pair where you can see the pair and the drogue. Without it, it kinds looks like the tandem pair is hanging from a rope for the whole freefall. Yes, you can get just a top. But that doesn't work for me, because it limits the wearer to a wing that goes no lower than their hip rings. They are really nice, though, cause you can film wearing shorts. They seem to work great for the lighter guys, and I may attempt one as my skills improve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ixlr82 7 #6 September 4, 2003 Thanks for the all the great info. Gonna have to get some wings, I guess. They actually sound kind of fun. The thing I hate about skydiving is I love every discipline so much that my learning curve is slow in all! __________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigG 0 #7 September 4, 2003 Quote Also, does anyone make just a camera suit top ? Is it good to start flying camera in a full camera suit or will a camera suit top do the job just as well? (filming RW & Tandems) I am more inclined towards the camera suit top but would like your opinion (pro & cons..) Also what would be the price difference (just an indicative level to make comparisons)? Any recommendations? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #8 September 4, 2003 One thing. The Birdman folks have some good guidlines about training and experience to put on a Birdsuit. There is nothing similar when buying a camera suit, and there probably should be. If you have the D wing or larger on the Tony Camera Suit, and others, the wing will cover your hackey when you reach for it, if you don't sweep across the bottom of your container. If you do a backflip to catch an opening and then go into a boxman to get stable you can end up doing an uncontrollable series of backflips as the drag from the wing will overpower the drag from your legs. Other scary things are when one wing is open and the other is disconnected, or when a wing cord breaks. Plus there's all the complications that a camera/stills helmet introduces. Camera suit flying increases the danger of skydiving. Please approach it with respect and caution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites garywainwright 0 #9 September 4, 2003 Its all a question of having the right tools for the job. Tony make a C wing camera jacket - i use something similar and its great. Wings and lead is a good option for the lighter cameraflyers because it gives such a big range of fall rates. A lot of people who wear just a baggy suit seem to be doing it because they thing its cooler - they don't need wings to fly etc etc. Just remember you are judged on the final video - not what you were wearing to film it! have fun!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #10 September 4, 2003 reply] Is it good to start flying camera in a full camera suit or will a camera suit top do the job just as well? (filming RW & Tandems) I am more inclined towards the camera suit top but would like your opinion (pro & cons..) Also what would be the price difference (just an indicative level to make comparisons)? Any recommendations? When I first started shooting video, I was using a flip/flop camera suit, basically a freefly suit with a smaller wing set up so you can use it on your back, and on your belly. This was ok, I did a ton of jumps with it, later the team I was on got Jumpsuits so I got a Pro-Comp Camera suit from Merlin, Immediately I wondered, how did I ever do video without it? The difference was amazing, booties added amazing power to my track, and the Huge wings allowed me to fly steep as hell on the team, and if I got burbled, it wasnt a problem. But with the power and wing, the suit was definitely harder to fly, thats just for competition type skydiving and Rw, for tandems I still use my flip flop suit, its more comfortable and I like to fly on my back with tandems. All suit manufacturer's make good camera suits, so which one you buy is purely preference. So if you want a suit, its ok to start with a jacket or freefly suit with wings, Ive even seen camera suits with shorts on them. Depending on what you intend to shoot maybe progress to a suit suited for your needs, Dress for success. I do reccomend doing a jump or two without a camera on wearing your suit first, do practice pulls ect, it is a little difft, but with practice you wont even notice the difference. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garywainwright 0 #9 September 4, 2003 Its all a question of having the right tools for the job. Tony make a C wing camera jacket - i use something similar and its great. Wings and lead is a good option for the lighter cameraflyers because it gives such a big range of fall rates. A lot of people who wear just a baggy suit seem to be doing it because they thing its cooler - they don't need wings to fly etc etc. Just remember you are judged on the final video - not what you were wearing to film it! have fun!http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #10 September 4, 2003 reply] Is it good to start flying camera in a full camera suit or will a camera suit top do the job just as well? (filming RW & Tandems) I am more inclined towards the camera suit top but would like your opinion (pro & cons..) Also what would be the price difference (just an indicative level to make comparisons)? Any recommendations? When I first started shooting video, I was using a flip/flop camera suit, basically a freefly suit with a smaller wing set up so you can use it on your back, and on your belly. This was ok, I did a ton of jumps with it, later the team I was on got Jumpsuits so I got a Pro-Comp Camera suit from Merlin, Immediately I wondered, how did I ever do video without it? The difference was amazing, booties added amazing power to my track, and the Huge wings allowed me to fly steep as hell on the team, and if I got burbled, it wasnt a problem. But with the power and wing, the suit was definitely harder to fly, thats just for competition type skydiving and Rw, for tandems I still use my flip flop suit, its more comfortable and I like to fly on my back with tandems. All suit manufacturer's make good camera suits, so which one you buy is purely preference. So if you want a suit, its ok to start with a jacket or freefly suit with wings, Ive even seen camera suits with shorts on them. Depending on what you intend to shoot maybe progress to a suit suited for your needs, Dress for success. I do reccomend doing a jump or two without a camera on wearing your suit first, do practice pulls ect, it is a little difft, but with practice you wont even notice the difference. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximus1 0 #11 September 10, 2003 What would you recommend for a 1st camerasuit? New/Used? Small/Medium wings? - Maximus It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #12 September 11, 2003 QuoteWhat would you recommend for a 1st camerasuit? New/Used? Small/Medium wings? First I would recommend more jumps...sorry. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites