btvr 0 #1 April 1, 2003 I ordered a new container last week. On the order form it asks for your canopy sizes and lines. I assumed that the reserve had dacron. Come to find out that pd reserves can have either type. I don't know what it has since I bought it and it was packed before I had a chance to see them. I just had it repacked and don't want to open it up to see. any advice on what to do? Would a difference in line type be that crucial in the reserve pack volume?.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 April 1, 2003 Get the data card out, get the serial number off of it for the reserve and call PD in the morning. They could probably tell you.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 April 1, 2003 QuoteCome to find out that pd reserves can have either type. I don't know what it has since I bought it and it was packed before I had a chance to see them. I just had it repacked and don't want to open it up to see. any advice on what to do? PD sends a reserve manual with their reserves. In it there should be a loose sheet w/ the S/N, LINE TYPE, Link type, Grommet type, and Customer's PO# written on it. I checked three sources, all three listed the same specs for the Spectra lined PD-193R, and the one that listed pack volume for a Dacron PD-193R actually listed a smaller pack volume, which can't be true. PD-193R DOM: 10/92 Pack volume: 471 Type Lines: Spectra PD-193R DOM: 12/90 Pack Volume: 470 Type Lines: Dacron The larger the reserve, the longer the lines, the more of an impact on pack volume Dacron will have over micro-line. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #5 April 1, 2003 It's a pd 193 was made in jan 99. I didn't get a manual with it. I got it through a gear store that may have had it in stock. I was just out off student status and to new to realize to check on any of those things. I was thinking of calling my rigger since he just repacked it last week. there's a chance he may remember what it had. Ya think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #6 April 1, 2003 Good chance he will remember what type of lines. Most PDR's I have packed had Micro-lines. It depends on how many he has packed sine that one. If he doesn't remember, call PD w/ the S/N, like Aggiedave suggested. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #7 April 1, 2003 Will do. thanks a lot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btvr 0 #8 April 1, 2003 Took your advice and called pd. left a message with the serial number and situation. Donna called back in 5 minutes and told me what I had! 725 microline. That was fast! Thanks again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
udder 0 #9 August 23, 2006 Though I'd bring an old thread back to life... What difference in pack volume will dacron make over microline? Specifically to Jav J3 and pdr 160?"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #10 August 23, 2006 Did you see the post above yours? Call Sun Path, they will probably have a vague idea. The manufacture is always your best source of information.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #11 August 23, 2006 QuoteThough I'd bring an old thread back to life... What difference in pack volume will dacron make over microline? Specifically to Jav J3 and pdr 160? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dacron lines will increase pack volume by about 20 percent over Spectra. In other words, if a Spectra-lined reserve that size is tight, only God's gift to rigging will be able to pack the same size with Dacron lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #12 August 24, 2006 QuoteI don't know what it has since I bought it and it was packed before I had a chance to see them. Sometimes I think I’m the only one who does not trust my life to anyone but me. It really amazes me when I hear my friends say that they have never seen the color of their own reserves. Most of them have never read their rig’s owner’s manual. Some others can’t even pack their mains. How far can you trust your rigger (or packer)? Maybe in US you can blind trust your rigger because almost everything written is in English but this is not the case here in Brazil. We have very few USPA licensed riggers, the majority of reserve repacks here are done by more experienced skydivers (some of them not so experienced). Most of these guys can’t even read a manual in English! How should I expect them to correctly assemble and pack my reserve? I was the first to get a Wings at my DZ. Even giving a printed manual my reserve container was incorrectly closed. I had to translate the manual but I still open the container after repack simply because I know I will close it better (I always get better PC launches when I close it). I do my own assembling and inspection (main and reserve), check line continuity, install and remove links, sliders, check line trim, change brake lines, I even make small repairs. My next reserve repack will be probably done by me. I’m not saying that everyone should start messing with their own equipment but I just feel that knowing a little bit about it does really good to your peace of mind. Maybe it’s just engineer paranoia . Blue skies RonaldoEngineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #13 August 24, 2006 Ronaldo, Do you jump in the US or elsewhere besides Brazil? If so, then how is your reserve repack/card handled? You sign it your self? Have your own seal? If you're so good, it just sounds like you should come to the states and you'd easily pass a rigging course and can get a certification....you know, just make it official for what you already do in Brazil and make it legit for elsewhere as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #14 August 24, 2006 I’ve traveled to US a couple of times but mostly on business so I did not have a chance to jump. We have our own skydiving organization here; it is called CBPq. Up to now my reserve is being packed by a guy who is just listed at their web site as a “reserve packer”. He is the one that signs my data card. I understand your concerns when I say that I re-close the container, that’s why I’ll learn how to pack and thus sign my own card. The majority of the reserve packers listed are not USPA licensed riggers. If I want my reserve repacked by a rigger I’d have to ship it to another state. According to current regulations a reserve parachute must be packed by a CBPq registered packer or rigger (previously you just needed a C license to do it). When I start packing my reserve I will definitely fill an application form to make it legal. I’m not that good as you mentioned, I just feel the need to know as much as I can about that piece of webbing and fabric that saves life at weekends. As I said before, it may be easier to trust a rigger if you live in US, but I just don’t feel I can do it blindly here. The careless attitude I see here from many jumpers is what really worries me. To pass a rigging course I’m pretty sure I’ll have to study a lot.Blue skies!Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #15 August 24, 2006 The majority of the reserve packers listed are not USPA licensed riggers. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trivial point: in the United States, parachute riggers are certified (licensed) the federal government via the Department of Transportation ... Federal Aviation Administration. The FAA administers tests and issues riggers' licenses. Standards vary widely from one country to the next. For example, in Canada, the federal government believes that the less they have to do with parachutes, the better, so most responsibilities for parachutes are delegated to the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association. As long as the skydiving fatality rate is low, Transport Canada (federal government) can stay out of the skydiving business. For example: I am certified by the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association to train new parachute riggers. Even sillier, I have recently traded e-mails with a skydiver - in Moscow - who complains that there is no national (federal) standard for training riggers in Russia. Instead, riggers are trained and "approved" at the drop zone level. Fortunately, the Parachute Industry Association and the European Economic Community are both trying to write common standards for training riggers, on this planet. The Europeans will probably agree on a common standard sooner, and the EEC has the political and economic clout to push through legislation. Just don't hold your breath. Convincing the French to agree with the Germans ... to agree with the British, etc. is a delicate political process that can take decades. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigger_john 0 #16 August 24, 2006 Quote Fortunately, the Parachute Industry Association and the European Economic Community are both trying to write common standards for training riggers, on this planet. The Europeans will probably agree on a common standard sooner, and the EEC has the political and economic clout to push through legislation. Just don't hold your breath. Convincing the French to agree with the Germans ... to agree with the British, etc. is a delicate political process that can take decades. Tell me about it, I've sent emails to EASA, the CCA and the JAA, in order to get information about the plans for rigging in Europe. I think I may go back to my former occupation of blood from stone extractor, it was easier._________________________________________ Nullius in Verba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronaldo 0 #17 August 24, 2006 Hi Rob, Thanks for clarifying the license issue. The FAA equivalent in Brazil is ANAC (previously DAC). Similarly to what you described about Canada and Russia, ANAC have absolutely no involvement with parachute equipment but only with issues regarding parachuting operations (licensing aircrafts, pilots and air space (NOTAMs). We don’t have any kind of rigger course or certification except for the military (they have their own rules). As a fact, FAA’s riggers licenses are accepted by our local regulations. I totally understand your point about Standards. My wife and I have been involved with the aviation industry for a while. We both know how complicate and incompatible regulations can be. I don't think we'll ever have a world regulation for sport parachuting (we still don't have one for aviation). Safe skies!Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 August 25, 2006 Most of what I know about the International Riggers Standardization Program, I have heard from Eric Fradet, Technical Director for the Federation Francais du Parachutisme. A few years back, an Australian (Mike Smith?) did a survey on behalf of the Parachute Industry Association. He mailed out surveys to dozens of national aero clubs (i.e. USPA, CSPA, etc.), but only heard back from a few. This process of getting dozens of countries to agree is a slow, political process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
