Sony DCR-HC20, 30

[Jake44 0]

Anyone jumping the newer Sony DCR-HC20 or 30? If so, what do you think? Are they making condoms or D-Boxes for them yet? I have an HC20, have not yet skydived it, but made a few base jumps and found it works great. If anyone has any feedback on what they think please post.

[riggerrob 643]

The local (Coquitlam, BC, Canada) Sony store just called to say they have arrived.
I will check them out this evening.
Size (slightly shorter than TRV 19) and price sound right ...

[3ringheathen 0]

I just bought an HC 30.
I haven't jumped it yet, but hope to do a half dozen base jumps with it this weekend.

I'll post any troubles I have.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[skymedic 0]

are you able to get a wide angle for that thing?

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[3ringheathen 0]

Quote

are you able to get a wide angle for that thing?

They were out of stock at Best Buy when I bought my camera.

They are available though: Sony sells a .5 and 2x package. Sima (?) sells one that fits, too.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[Jake44 0]

I was able to get a .43 for it. Works well. I know sony makes 3 different lenses for it, I bought an aftermarket from Best Buy. Seems to work great on base jumps, but I havn't skydived it yet.

[skymedic 0]

Thanks for the info guys...let me know how the skydive goes with it...

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[3ringheathen 0]

Wind conditions and the presence of S&R crews/authorities prevented me from making the daytime jumps I'd planned to this weekend, so I can't say much about the camera yet.

I did one night jump with it. The light from a partially obscured full moon wasn't adequate for usable footage, so I left my camera on the ground for the next jump.

Once I make a few skydives on it, I'll try to give some more usefull feedback.

-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[riggerrob 643]

Where is the tally/record light on the SONY HC20?

Is it in the oval-shaped window below the lens?
Is it in that tiny window down at the bottom of the front panel, almost to the base plate?
The salesman at London Drugs was not sure and I cannot find the manual on-line.

[3ringheathen 0]

Hi Rob:
The record indicator light is near the bottom of the front, just under the MiniDV logo.

I have the camera top mounted with nothing but some gaffers tape over seams and ports to protect it. I'm going to build a box for it, add a quick release, and a Cameye.

I made five skydives from 13k with my HC30 yesterday. I flew in every orientation, exposing the camera to high winds everywhich way.
It performed quite well, not a glitch or hiccup to speak of, but I'd still recommend better protection for it.

The controls are tiny, it's tough to reliably turn the camera on blindly while wearing it. It would be nearly impossible while wearing gloves.
It's really easy to accidentally turn the camera to memory stick or tape play mode instead of tape record mode.

This means that using a Cameye is not just a luxury if you're doing paid videos.

AFAIK, the HC series hasn't been tested with a Cameye, but I don't expect any problems. Again, I'll post once I've tried it.
Anyone else using this combo yet?

Compared with my old PC 7, the HC 30 has some cool features, but most of them are probably available on other recent models.

New to me that I really like:

You can take digital stills on the memory stick while recording video to the tape. Unfortunately, the memory stick is Sony's proprietary/expensive "Duo".
It comes with an 8MB stick.

You can customize the features that are available on the touch screen menu.
Add/delete options so that it's easy to find the features you use.

Analog to digital pass through, there's a bit of stuff I've got on VHS that I've always wanted to transfer to my computer. Now I can.

Also, it's small enough that it can easily be top or side mounted.

-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[riggerrob 643]

I have finally saved up enough money and am now itching to buy, just have to decide between SONY HC40 and PC109.
HC40 will do the job.
PC109 looks so much smaller, sleeker and sexier, but it is hard to justify spending CAN$350 extra.

Note, I plan to stuff my new camera in a hand mount - most of the time - and video my own tandem students, however I could also stuff in in my old Bonehead, full-box helmet for the occasional outside video.

HELP!

What are your opinions folks?

[3ringheathen 0]

Quote

have to decide between SONY HC40 and PC109.
HC40 will do the job.
PC109 looks so much smaller, sleeker and sexier, but it is hard to justify spending CAN$350 extra.

I forgot to follow up: the cameyeII works great on the HC 30.
I really like my little camera so far, though I've still not done tons of jumps on it.

FWIW: Several people at the DZ have gotten jealous after looking it over and finding out how cheap it is compared to theirs.

As for size, the HC's are a little longer, but actually shorter than the 109. They're both the same width.

For a top mount, I want the shortest camera. (HC30)
For side mount, I want the narrowest. (tie)


Near as I can tell, unless there's a feature(s) that you really, really want on the 109, save your cash.
For that matter, what is it about the HC 40 that's worth the extra money over the 30? The better still photos?
YMMV.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

[riggerrob 643]

Near as I can tell, unless there's a feature(s) that you really, really want on the 109, save your cash.
For that matter, what is it about the HC 40 that's worth the extra money over the 30? The better still photos?
YMMV.
-Josh

[sammer 0]

I think the increased pixels are only useful for stills. From what I have gathered they all record video with 690K pixels. I have a PC-109 and I really like it, but I am not sure I wouldn't have been just as well off with one of the cheaper HC-XX models. One thing you might want to consider is availability of lenses for the 25mm threads and the lack of helmets/d-boxes for the new sony models.

Sam

[riggerrob 643]

Thanks for the observation about them all recording video at 690K pixels.
25mm adapter rings are already available for Way Cool Industries in Australia and Max Cohn also plans to sell them in the near future.

Both HC series and PC109 will fit in my old Bonehead full box helmet. D-boxes should be available soon from several manufacturers.

[sammer 0]

OK, it sounds like you know what you're getting into.

I just took another look at sonystyle.com and noticed that the HC-20 and 30 record video with 340K pixels vs. 690K for the HC-40 and PC-109. They also have a smaller CCD (1/6" vs. 1/5"). I don't know if that makes a noticable difference in picture quality or not.

Do you know of anyone working on d-boxes for the 109 besides cookie? I'm kind of in the market for one right now.

Sam

[IvanPeters 0]

Generalising a bit: bigger lens lets more light in (= better picture), bigger CCD captures more light ( = better picture) and more pixels more accurately capture the light ( = better picture).

Can't say I've particularly noticed a quality difference between small and large lenses but the difference between megapixel and sub-megapixel cameras is quite noticeable (to me, anyway).

[futurehighflyer 0]

does any one have a pic of theirs on the helmet?

[pyke 0]

Quote

what is it about the HC 40 that's worth the extra money over the 30? The better still photos?

Yup, the 40 just takes better stills. Good if you want to snap off a few instant boogie nightlife photos, or have it double for a digital still when not jumping, but otherwise, not practical for jumping footage.

Perhaps we can get Quade to chime in on this one, but if I'm not mistaken - the 30 and 40 are simply newer, spruced up versions of the TRV-22/33. Your thoughts, quade? I know we both own the 22 (bought mine after your rave reviews), but after buying it, I thought I might/should have spent the $75 extra on the 33 for the 'occasional' still photos and higher resolution for grabbing stills from video. Were we smarter to stick with the 22, or should I/we be looking to 'upgrade' to the 40 soon??

Just thought I'd ask, was checking out the 40 last night and the thought occurred to me (doesn't happen often - so I had to run with it!)

Kahurangi e Mahearangi,
Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic

[quade 4]

Well, I have a slightly different perspective.

Until the technology improves considerably I'm probably not ever going to use a video camera to take stills. So, for me, any of those functions are simply a waste.

Sony doesn't seem interested, at least right now, in creating a combination video/still camera that is capable of doing both very well separately, let alone at the same time. The closest thing right now is the PC330, but even at 3.3 mega pixels, I still wouldn't use it for still photography unless my D60 went belly up for some reason.

The HC40, with about 1 mega pixels, is only slightly better than a frame grab from video. Although I will admit that is probably a progressive scan image and not interlaced like video. The chip in the HC40 is also quite small (1/6" as opposed to 1/3" so, only 1/4 the size of a TRV chip) meaning that any defects, dust or whatever is really going to show up -- especially on a print.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pyke 0]

once again, your logic and experience astound!!!


Thanks for the input - I'll stick with my 22!!

Kahurangi e Mahearangi,
Kiwi, RB #926, AFF-I, FAA Snr. Rigger, RN/BSN/Paramedic

[DancingFlame 0]

Small corrections should be done.
HC-15 is the new camcorder somewhere between TRV-19 and TRV-22. All of them have 1/4" chip with 800k pixels. HC-15 is a good camcorder to start with. Video quality of HC-15 is the same as TRV-19/22.
HC-40 is the TRV-33 in a new shell. HC-40 has 1/5" chip and 1070k pixels (TRV-33 has 1/4.7" and 1070k). Video quality is the same as TRV-33, stills looks very similiar too. But HC-40 has manual white balance feature. That may help a lot.
HC-18,20 and 30 are not that good. They have 1/6" chip with 800k pixels, video quality is rather bad when shooting video in the dark. However, when shooting skydiving video, there are always enough light, so thay can be used for freefall video.

So, I'm thinking of HC-15 or HC-40 (in a month, after I complete my 200th).

[BlueSBDeath 2]

Is it true that the larger the CCD the better the quality of still or video?

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[DancingFlame 0]

I'm not quade, but I know the answer.
Large CCD can accumulate larger amount of light, so, digital amplificatin is not needed. Digital amplification adds noise, and the darker the night, the more noise will be added. For freefall photography/video, there are a lot of light everywhere so you may never notice difference between camcorders/still cameras with different CCD sizes. But in darker areas (inside the plane, for example) difference will be VERY noticeable.
It is applicable both for video and photography.

CCD size itself does not allow to judge about video quality. More important parameter is the pixel size on the CCD. More pixels, less pixel size on the same CCD. That is why camcorders with 1/4" and 800k pixels may shoot better than 1/4.7" and 1070k pixels.

[freekflyguy 0]

After waiting 2 weeks for a 25mm - 37mm step ring I finaly got to jump my new HC30E today.

Only managed 1 jump but was still very impressed.

I had it mounted on my FTP and found it easy to switch on whilst wearing it, I have a cam eye fitted but i only use it for the indicator, I use the switches on the camera for operation.

A couple of things I was worried about were the zoom lever and the on/off switch being knocked by the reletive wind. As i said I only managed 1 jump but no probs what so ever with them.

The on/off switch for the HC 30E is a rocker switch that cycles through the three options (Tape, memory stick, VCR). The cam eye works great and will flash red if in any other mode than Tape.

The hybrid screen is great for viewing in bright daylight, and the one touch bty indicator is really usefull as you get an instant readout without having to power up the cam.

One gripe I do have is that the HC30E has no onboard SVID connector, that comes as part of the new A/V lead. This is only a minor pain due to the editing suite at my DZ having an SVID lead permanently connected.

I viewed the footage I shot today along side some I shot yesterday with a PC8E and was very happy with the comparable image quality. I must agree with the comments about low light performance, however if its that dark I aint jumping:-).

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.