what to tell a newbie who's already strapped a camera to their head?

[payback462 0]

so ive seen a few people at the DZ lately that have been strapping shiny new camera helmets to their head. some of these people really shouldnt be strapping those grappling hooks to their head just yet
any thoughts on what to tell them? i know its hard to put away a new toy when youve already played with it, and dont quite know how dangerous it is.
and i figure a kick in the head wont go over too well

[garef001 0]

well i'll say one thing, from the way that people have reacted here, say it nicely. other than that just make sure they understand the added risk and help them out with their setups. if someone has already added a camera and feels that they are ready for it, you can not convince them that they are wrong. what i think is help them so that they will at least be safer.

Thanasi

[dustin19d 0]

Dont beat around the bush. If you come across me and think its to early to wear a camera, seriously kick me upside the head and say WTF. I will listen!

[boxingrrl 0]

I don't think that there is a way to do it that will be totally well-received, but I think it's fair to ask questions to get them thinking. For instance, "have you considered what might happen if you have an entanglement? with your RSL hooked up? Where's your hook-knife? or helmet release?" Starting a dialogue about the risks and solutions might at least get them to re-evaluate their choice, even if they don't put the camera away. If you can get them to think about their safety a little and send them in the right direction, they'll be better off than if you've said nothing.

I tried to do a little intervention with a young jumper at my DZ last year. He kept jumping the camera, and rather smugly handed me a DVD of his footage at Christmas. But, if he'd had an accident, or if he has one now even at a mighty 100 jumps, I know that I tried... and sometimes that's all you can do.

[AggieDave 6]

Talk to the S&TA and the head instructor about it, let them talk to the newbies. They'll be better recieved then any other random jumper talking to them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[payback462 0]

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Dont beat around the bush. If you come across me and think its to early to wear a camera, seriously kick me upside the head and say WTF. I will listen

well thats the problem, somebody like yourself, smart enough to understand probably wouldnt do it in the first place!!!

i just hate seeing people get in over their head and not even know it, i remember when i first stapped my camera on,i was shitting bricks. it still gives me the willies when i think about wearing it

[Faber 0]

Its not really your problem or dessision,if you think its a problem you should contact the staff,let them deal whith it...
sorry just my oppinion/what i would do

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[davelepka 4]

Here's an interesting point. The danger is not soley that of an equipment related problem at deployment or in a cutaway. The real danger, the one that concerns me more often than not is the danger to other jumpers.

With shooting video being the first thing on their mind (and thats what new video guys do. It's in an effort to produce some nice footage to show how 'good' or how 'cool' they are, or how wrong all the jumpers are who think they shouldn't have a camera are), basic safety concerns are not the first thing on their mind. Tunnel vision kicks in, and they can't see beyond their own ignorance.

Take the video of the two freeflyers, with one being on his first camera jump, and the other on one of his first times in front of the camera ( I would name names and places, but there are more than a handful of these videos out there). The jump looks OK for the most part. It starts to seem a little long, then the video catches a glimpse of a reserve pilot chute shooting past the one guys feet (they were head down) just before teh video is jolted a halt by a high speed reserve deployment, with a 'no time to even unstow the brakes' landing. Both jumpers were so focused on the camera, they flew head down right into a dual Cypres fire. Thank god for Cypres.

As an experienced camera flyer, I would say that my mind wanders from the 'job' of shooting a video at least ten times every jump. Maybe I'm eyeballing the background looking at the spot, or maybe I'm looking at who I'm shooting, and their equipment. One time I felt my shoe come untied, and the extra wind in my shoe caught my attention. You have to able to multi-task like this to be safe with a camera. If you can't, you can't safely shoot video, it's just not possible.

What do you tell this guy? Who knows. Your guess is as good as mine. Keep clear of this guy in the sky for sure.

[katiebear21 0]

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Talk to the S&TA and the head instructor about it, let them talk to the newbies. They'll be better recieved then any other random jumper talking to them.

Exactly. It's good that you notice it's unsafe, just let the right person approach the problem - if it is indeed a problem.

We had kids at Raeford jumping cameras fairly early too but they were exceptional kids (born and bred for skydiving)!

Katie
Get your PMS glass necklace here

[DJL 235]

Hey Allen, why not work with them a bit yourself and give them a written package on jumping with a camera? Or how about putting together a videographer safety seminar and have the group split in half according to skill level and pair off for the season with mentor/student groups. That way you've invited these new video jumpers to ask the more experienced group.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[vdschoor 0]

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Or how about putting together a videographer safety seminar and have the group split in half according to skill level and pair off for the season with mentor/student groups. That way you've invited these new video jumpers to ask the more experienced group.

This sounds like a really good idea, I've seen this in the events calendar (I think in Parachutist) that DZ's were doing this. I think the DZs that were doing it were on the east coast.

Iwan

[crzjp20 0]

ok well a little to the topic, what do yall think is a good time to start thinking about putting one on.

I know i am a long ways off, and i have to learn how to totaly fly my body before i even think of it. But when did yall strap one on for the first time? Camera flying is something i want to do in the future, but im in no rush.

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Fear is not a confession of weakness, it is an oportunity for courage.

[vdschoor 0]

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ok well a little to the topic, what do yall think is a good time to start thinking about putting one on.

I think it is posted about a 100 times already that a minimum of 200 jumps is about the absolute minimum, although this is not officially documented anywhere I think.
On top of that you want to be very current jumping and also be current and comfortable with your equipment (canopy e.a.)

I started jumping my camera around 300 - 350 or so, and started off on a Triathlon (bad idea)
When I downsized, I left my camera on the ground for about 40-50 jumps until I was very comfortable under my new canopy (Sabre2)

Also, don't bring your camera on jumps where you have to fly at the end of your capabilities.. For example if you are a belly flier with 20 sitfly jumps, don't bring the camera on sitfly jumps because you will have to think about your flying too much, the camera will only be a distraction in that case.

I think more experienced camera people can add way more to this list.

Iwan

[kjarv 0]

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I started jumping my camera around 300 - 350 or so, and started off on a Triathlon (bad idea)
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Curious - why was the Triathlon a bad idea?

[vdschoor 0]

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I started jumping my camera around 300 - 350 or so, and started off on a Triathlon (bad idea)
============================

Curious - why was the Triathlon a bad idea?

It was a bad idea for me, it used to spank me once in a while and after it had done it a couple of times with the full camera setup on my head and my neck beeing sore for over a week I decided I needed another canopy.
Personally I would recommend the Spectre or the Sabre2 over the Triathlon if you want to strap cameras on your head.

Don't get me wrong, I've put 300 jumps on my Triathlon 190, and I loved it but it was just not the right canopy to be jumping with cameras on my head. That's why I said bad idea.

Iwan

[ddec 0]

Thanks for a VERY good question, answered well. I ran into this last year with a guy who had logged 70 jumps. I feel I was lucky in the fact that he is a safety conscious jumper, and a friend, so he knew there was no malice involved.
I'll keep this in mind if ever I have to jump on someone else though.

[chopchop 0]

I usually ask them why they need the added complications when they are still trying to learn to fly.. what good is the camera if you can't get the shot? Learn to fly first.. then add complications.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[Squeak 17]

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Dont beat around the bush. If you come across me and think its to early to wear a camera, seriously kick me upside the head and say WTF. I will listen!

Well if you DO listen you most likely won't have a camera strapped to your head too early

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[jose 0]

Yeah dude, of course people should! You only have 40 jumps. You should wait until you have 46 to start like I did. Then you'll be safe.


Edit: by the way, no one ever told me that I shouldnt be jumping camera at that number of jumps, so I really didn't know any better.

[dustin19d 0]

I do listen. I have a camera but am waiting to wear it until I have more jumps.

[jose 0]

Dude, I was kidding..... I started jumping camera at 46 jumps.......hindsight....? Dumb.

[freeflir29 0]

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I started jumping camera at 46 jumps.......hindsight....? Dumb.

Wow....yeah......I remember a guy from Brasil showing up at the DZ one day. His girlfriend was doing a tandem and he asked if he could shoot the video. Of course the TM asked how many jumps he had.....the answer.......27. Absolutely crazy!!!! I waited until jump #197 I think. I was plenty ready and jumped a canopy that I had 100 or so jumps on. THAT was very important since I didn't want to have to visually check it during deployment. I wanted to be able to FEEL if it was deploying correctly. Just so I didn't HAVE to look up and involve the camera in a possible malfunction. It worked out well for me and now I ALWAYS get my deployment (Unless it's a really hard opening) on camera. Take your time........do one thing at a time!!! I have 395 jumps now and I STUPIDLY combined a few new things all at once last Saturday. Almost got me BROKE! Take your time out there.

[jose 0]

Yeah, at least I know that it was not that smart now, as compared to being convinced that it wasn't since I didnt get killed or hurt. On the flip side, I have jumped with a camera on every jump since then so I feel wierd without a camera on my head now. I am just about to get a FTP from a guy for a pretty good price and mount my new Dig Rebel and the PC120 on it for chasing tandems at my own DZ. Im sure that some would consider that stupid as well..... I'm sure that I will look back to this 3-400 jumps from now and think......damn, that was stupid!

[packerboy 3]

Stupid for you to chase tandems? Or stupid for the TI to let you? At our dropzone, you MUST be a tandem instructor before following tandems even without a camera. For the most part we require 1000+ jumps to be a TI. Unfortunately for me, that means packing for a few more seasons....

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I do listen. I have a camera but am waiting to wear it until I have more jumps.

FWIW - I am sitting here at 500 jumps and one mal. I challenged myself over the past year and tried to fly with some people with tons of skills and realized how much I still need to focus on my flying.

All of that has me waiting to put a camera on my head.

If you are looking to get really good video and your still have to focus on your flying, you won't get the shot. You should not be doing this in the air: "Ok, I need to drop one leg and elbow to get over there and then backslide a bit and tilt my head to get that cloud and my buddy in the shot, and oh yea, what alti am I at and have we backslid into the next group" ....instead it should be "wow, cool shot over there" and next thing you know, you are there without even thinking.

Use your camera helmet on the ground, walk around the house and look for some good shots....then think back and realize how much you had to move your body to get that shot and you never once thought about it. Once you can do that in the air, then you will really be ready for camera flying.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....