Firewire between PAL and NTCS cameras?

[Deuce 1]

Anybody have any experience firewiring video from a PAL camera to an NTSC camera, and vice-versa? I'm hearing the firewire transfer is automatic, but I'm hearing it from people who have not done it firsthand.

JP

[indyz 1]

A while back we tried to Firewire from a PAL Sony PC-series camera to an NSTC Sony VX-series camera and couldn't make it work. We were doing this without the benefit of instruction manuals, so I suppose it's possible and we just couldn't figure it out.

[bskyz 0]

I've done it before, (PAL > NTSC) and it works fine for viewing on the camera, but you still cannot view it on TV. (Or in my case, I edited a DVD with some PAL shots in it, and they were not viewable on any of the TV's I tried it on)

Blue ones
Dave
My site...

[garywainwright 0]

I've done NTSC to PAL and again it was fine to view on the camera but the image was just black & white when i tried to watch it on a TV

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[vdschoor 0]

JP,

As the other people said on here, on some TV's it won't work.

The thing is (I guess this is in relation to the Herc Boogie) in Europe it will actually work on almost all TVs made since the 90's or so. Most TVs there can display both PAL (their format) as well as NTSC

It's going to be an issue for the Americans that want the boogie video and watch it at home, but I am sure the video crew has a solution for that.

Iwan

[turtlespeed 221]

I did some firewire trans from my 105 to Spin Doctors pc1(??) and it went ok - and it played on the tv fine but the color was an issue.*shrug* still it looked pretty cool in(Almost) black and white.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Deuce 1]

I'm not really concerned about the TV bit, but there is a movie created every day from the daily's and I'll need to download into their computer. I've got an e-mail in to Schwede regarding the technical resources at the Herc end.

[vdschoor 0]

Quote

I'm not really concerned about the TV bit, but there is a movie created every day from the daily's and I'll need to download into their computer. I've got an e-mail in to Schwede regarding the technical resources at the Herc end.

Well, I assume they are playing the daily's on a european TV, so you'll be fine.
Digital Video is digital video, it's pretty much as simple as that.. it's just the display device that has to be compatible with your video format (NTSC or PAL)

Iwan

[mathias 0]

glenn
knows all about that
he has done the video for Herc before and he has done the friflaj stuff too,

Mathias
e-mail me and I'll give you his address

Ingen minns en fegis!

[GravityGirl 0]

Damn honey, you beat me too it!

But I can teach you how to fire wire from Swede to American when you get home!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[mathias 0]

honey th rash is all gone now thanks to the clinic so wire maybe but not fire , at least not for me

m

Ingen minns en fegis!

[GravityGirl 0]

Awwww. You are sooooo romantic.

All you other ladies just eat your heart out!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[Ralf 0]

I have seen where a PAL camcorder was firewire to a NTSC comcorder, and then routed into an editing board and that produced a good signal that recorded on a NTSC VCR. I have also seen attemps that seem to work, but when the copy is checked, it failed. Good editing boards can often clean up a poor, out of sync, copy protected, etc signal.

Unless you have a format (PAL/NTSC/SECAM) converter or a multiformat converting VCR, you can not be sure of your results. Example, I firewired from a PAL camcorder to my NTSC Sony PC-9. When I played back the tape on the PC-9, it diplayed nicely in the camcorder's monitor. (I did not carefully check to see if any of the picture was cropped.) I could play back the comcorder (my NTSC sony) and take the video (not s-video) to my editing board and get a clean NTSC signal out. I tried to firewire from the Sony PC-9 to my VCR (yes, it has a firewire I/O) and the signal was blank!

The bottom line, w/out a converter, you may be able to get something to work, but double check your results.

Ralf Stinson

[mccordia 74]

The easyest way to 'convert' is to just capture the footage to a computer that can capture in both DV and PAL (via firewire or anolgue capture, doesn't matter)
and then (dirty method) just render the footage to the other format via premiere (just export an NTSC clip with PAL settings or the other way around)
But this does tend to give you some frame-jitters (due to the buggy 30 fps/25fps conversion without frame-blending)

If you want to do it realy good.
Capture your NTSC or PAL footage, and then zip it through After Effects (with frame blending) and rescale your footage to the correct resolution.
The only downside is that you do have to do some rendering and setting up every time you want to convert something (although rendering is usualy pretty quick)

The last method or an expensive 'hardware' PAL/NTSC converter are the only ways of doing realy good transfers from NTSC resolution/framerate to PAL resolution/framerate

If your at the herc boogie, and your laptop/pc can capture both PAL and NTSC via firewire I can show you how to do a conversion in AfterEffects.

The good thing about the After Effects conversion is that you realy convert pal to true ntsc (or the other way around) so you'll have no problems playing everything back on your camcorder/pc/dvd player or whatever you want to use it for..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Ralf 0]

I am not sure what you mean by easiest. My way, put a tape in multiformat converting VCR, connect PAL camcorder to input, push the NTSC button, then the record button, press play on the PAL camcorder. Time is the time to play the tape once. The only hard part of my way is getting the multiformat converting VCR. You must beg, borrow, steal or buy it.

Buying a multiformat converting VCR is cheaper than going from SF to the hurc boogie to get instruction. Samsung makes a good one, the SV5000W for $360 and does PAL, NTSC & SECAM. If you need SECAM L (France), there is the Samsung SV7000W for $640. Aiwa HX-M1000 is similar to the SV5000W for $500. A friend bought a converter (maybe from Fry) that did not work well. If possible, test anything before you buy it! If it is cheap, it just might be that!

The non-linear methods involve a computer (or laptop) and means you must buy or have a computer with enough capability (& program) to handle video I/O and video files. The computer (non-linear editing) gives you great power to manipulate your video, but it comes with a big "price," you must spend a significant amount of time learning how to use it. If you have the resources (time, money and desire) go the non-linear way (w/computer).

If it will be normal need to convert (PAL & NTSC) and you do linear editing, get a converter, or a multiformat converting VCR (note: a multiformat VCR does not convert, and a multiformat TV also does not convert, just displays in the native format).

If the need is seldom, then use a store (more common in Europe, and in cities with an international populations) that will convert for you.

You can also try to use an video editing (linear) board and go through another camear to get the signal "converted" and into an usable signal. That was in a previous post in this thread.

The difference in PAL & NTSC is both frame rate and number of scan lines. It is not an easy conversion.

Ralf Stinson

[Chrisky 0]

okay, here's the deal: The Cams basically can do both. I have successfully recorded NTSC on my PAL DV cam in VTR mode (PC-5E) several times now.
As the Cam can also play back NTSC, it shouldn't be a problem. The cameras can do both, they are just set to one standard of recording in cam mode by the manufacturer depending on the intended point of sale.

PAL has a higher resolution than NTSC but a slightly slower framerate, so they both use the same amount of signal bandwidth.
TVs are usually the cheapest links in the chain, so they usually only support one standard (unless you go somewhat highend).

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[FeFe 0]

To change from one format to another, you need a transcoder.
DV cameras do not have transcoders.
Most European models allow you to play NTSC footage on PAL camera and watch it on a PAL TV (if it has an NTSC playback option) though an analog output.
Some US models can do the same with playing PAL.
When you firewire an NTSC signal to PAL camera (or other way around) you will record the original digital signal, which means it will still be NTSC.

[Chrisky 0]

True. Didn't point it out sufficiently. Still, transferring the video is possible for later transcodign using other means.

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[FeFe 0]

Quote

transferring the video is possible for later transcodign using other means.

Absolutely.

[whatever 0]

I have an observation about this.

I have a NTSC PC105 and couldn't get it to play on a TV using the A/V out while visiting S.A.

It was an old TV, so it didn't support NTSC playback.

One of the other jumpers had a PAL Sony camcorder ( I forget what model), so he showed me what worked.

We firewired from my NTSC camcorder to his PAL camcorder, from which he outputted A/V to the TV and it played fine.

So, from this I can only assume that the output from his camcorder was PAL, or the TV would've done the same as it did with my NTSC A/V output.

This thread indicates that he would've recorded pin NTSC if he recorded the signal to tape on his camcorder.

Does this sound right?

soon to be gone