RACEDOG 0 #1 July 21, 2004 Just wondering what experience minimums would be good for an experienced skydiver that wants to geek a tandem. I recently had an extremely close call with a geeker while I was filming a tandem. I've never had any hard and fast rules other than checking their number of jumps and briefing them on where I wanted them to be and what I expected of them. This person was a friend of the tandem passenger and had 900+ jumps (uncurrent), a total stranger to me. He wasn't planning to dock, was just going to stay level and keep some distance. I told him to never be above or below us, track away as soon as he saw the tandem deploy. Well as I went belly to earth after videoing the opening, I couldn't believe it! There he was about 100 below and just a little to the side, he was just throwing his pilot chute. I fell no more than 10 feet away from his fully open canopy! I was furious! But managed to keep my cool and not embarrass him in front of everybody. Before showing him the video I had him tell me How his jump went. He said he never saw me freefall past him and that he had tracked away at 6000 feet. I showed him the video. He was very surprised! I'm alive simply because I was lucky! I'm thinking that my geeking rule is going to go like this: Current Jumper, over 500 jumps, 50 jumps last 12 months, or demonstrated skills. Just want to see what other people's opinions are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #2 July 21, 2004 So far I've only had really experienced people fly with the tandems that I filmed, or people that I knew could do it and would actually be aware of what I was going to do to get my customer his video and stills. My rule? either me and the tandem instructor (or just the tandem instructor) knows you as a safe skydiver and is comfortable with you beeing there. As to jump numbers, over 300 at least. Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flypunk 0 #3 July 21, 2004 USPA requires 500 jumps minimun and a 100 within the last year if I am not mistaken. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 July 21, 2004 My personal rules: 500 Jumps minimum AND one of the following Current Tandem Instructor. or Someone I have jumped with in the past and personaly approve of.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
motherhucker 0 #5 July 22, 2004 This subject is a huge pet peeve of mine. My personal rule is that if I can personally vouch for this person's flying ability, and the ability to stay clear of the drouge and out of my way, and generally follow directions, then it's OK by me. I give people 2 options (assuming only one person lurking): 1) track away at 6k and dump between 2500-2000' 2) stay in my line of sight (generally behind the tandem) through the opening, and then track over me and dump when they're clear. I have had a couple of situations where experienced people have come out with us and taken me out, taken the tandem out, or just generally fucked the jump up because they think it's a casual, fun skydive. It's not! Jumping with tandems is serious, and the consequences of doing it wrong could have serious consequences for you, the instructor and their student, for the Camera person, the DZ, and the sport in general. Anyone who ever comes out with me I make them do a quick dirt dive before the jump, even if they lurk me regularly. It's a creepy feeling knowing that there is another person in the air with you and not being able to look to see where they are. mh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 July 22, 2004 Quote2) stay in my line of sight (generally behind the tandem) through the opening, and then track over me and dump when they're clear. As a TI, I do NOT like that. I want to be able to see who ever it is. If I can't see them, then the video is going to be weird as I do some odd turns to find them.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #7 July 22, 2004 QuoteQuote2) stay in my line of sight (generally behind the tandem) through the opening, and then track over me and dump when they're clear. As a TI, I do NOT like that. I want to be able to see who ever it is. If I can't see them, then the video is going to be weird as I do some odd turns to find them. I would agree with AggieDave here, off to the side of the tandem is a position I prefer, both I and the tandem instructor can see that person in that case Mostly the reason people come along with a tandem is because they know the passenger, they should be flying in a position where the passenger can actually see them. Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimoke 0 #8 July 22, 2004 another tip to use, is with a reliable regular TI having him point directly at the lurker so you can position yourself 180 degrees across from where he is pointing. this allows you to know approximately where the lurker is, without taking your eyes off your customer. I also insist the lurker track away at 6500' and I backslide the other way, which gives adequate separation providing the lurker can actually track away in a straight line. the key is to know who your lurkers are and how they fly or it could be a disaster you don't want to film. I am glad you were lucky, bet that is some interesting footage! Stay Safe, Jim OkeThe ground always, remembers where you are! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #9 July 22, 2004 .... ...forget about that baloney of having the lurker stay off to the side,,,, or let them establish themselves, and the have the camera person adjust to the lurkers position..... ... If the person is NOT capable of flying quite close to the tandem,,, and doing it safely!!!! then they don't belong on the skydive.....And very often people who consider themselves "experienced", and who want to go with their friend or family member, are really NOT capable being part of a tandem jump... As a team,, the TM and I will always set up with the tandem facing the sun... The lurker can adjust... I do NOT advocate having the solo Dock on the pair,,, Unless he or she is a TM, an AFF instructor, or an experienced camera flyer.... But I would want to see the solo be positioned where BOTH the TM and I can easily see them.. If not ,, It's like videoing an incomplete skydive,,,wherein since the formation is not getting built,, ( by the process of elimination) I KNOW that there are still people " flyin' around out here" who are Unaccounted for...... I don't like surprises at deployment time,,, or at seperation time...surprises like someone under me,, or someone NOT tracking,,, or a face full of pilot chute...I can Deal with it,,,,, and I would be anticipating it... but I don't like it....... and yes... a full briefing is a great idea,,, especially with an "unknown"..... Also remember... we should try to give the benefit of the doubt to fellow jumpers,, and expect them to perform.....If they don't... then a proper post dive debrief is certainly in order... Ps.... I always defer to the TM...... who makes the decision whether the lurker comes with us or doesn't......(that's Not my job).. I can handle whatever the TM decides..... NOW>>> if someone decides to exit with a tandem, spontaneously,, and WITHOUT notifying the TM.... I'd be the first to support grounding that person,, at least for the remainder of the day... maybe more...and I would certainly get a lens full of their BAD decision,,, for evidence.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldgit 0 #10 July 22, 2004 I am both camera & Ti and when I jump tandem it’s my decision who lurks the jump. I don't allow jumpers out of my line of sight at pull time I want to see everybody that’s in the sky so I don’t get any nasty surprises. I have no problems with jumpers that I trust docking but on the student never me. At the weekend we built a nice 4 way tandem dive 5 if you count me the Ti everyone done as briefed and the student was blown away. Likewise when doing camera I would never dream of telling another Ti who can or cannot jump with us it’s up to him and as for the Ti pointing at lurkers we have enough to do without that. just my view John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YahooLV 0 #11 July 22, 2004 ditto!http://www.curtisglennphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #12 July 22, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote2) stay in my line of sight (generally behind the tandem) through the opening, and then track over me and dump when they're clear. As a TI, I do NOT like that. I want to be able to see who ever it is. If I can't see them, then the video is going to be weird as I do some odd turns to find them. I would agree with AggieDave here, off to the side of the tandem is a position I prefer, both I and the tandem instructor can see that person in that case Mostly the reason people come along with a tandem is because they know the passenger, they should be flying in a position where the passenger can actually see them. Iwan Of course sometimes it's just to get some shots fo the video flier.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #13 July 23, 2004 Did one of these recently also,, The TM and I agreed he could come, we dirt dived the jump, stressing safety, and not getting amped up because it was the lurkers daughter,, We had him fly in on the TI's right side so I could see him approach and not have to look away from the TI and daughter,, I pointed to him so the TI knew he was coming in, slid to my right and got vid of him by his daughter.. he tracked away from the tandem when they opened, I followed him and watched his opening at 4K, and then I opened,, it went as planned and everyone had a great time... and was a nice video also! Natural Born FlyerZ.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G5fh84 0 #14 July 23, 2004 We set our track directions first...If I am lurking then I will fly to the west...stay to the west.... track to the west....or which ever direction we pre determine....When the TM signals the camera man I track like hell to 3000 then slow for a couple of seconds before deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #15 July 23, 2004 QuoteIt's a creepy feeling knowing that there is another person in the air with you and not being able to look to see where they are. mh Fun Things to Do This Weekend: 1. Get on Otter first, pretending I'm doing a high pull; Follow MH and his tandem, (but stay out of his sight); Dock on his legs."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #16 July 23, 2004 Would Buffy approve?Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #17 July 23, 2004 QuoteWould Buffy approve? I don't care if she approves or not; As long as it doesn't trigger the chip in my head, I'll do as I bloody well please."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeakMindedFool 0 #18 July 23, 2004 ROFL...you rock!Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
motherhucker 0 #19 July 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt's a creepy feeling knowing that there is another person in the air with you and not being able to look to see where they are. mh Fun Things to Do This Weekend: 1. Get on Otter first, pretending I'm doing a high pull; Follow MH and his tandem, (but stay out of his sight); Dock on his legs. If you decide to try--I'd recommend wearing your full-face and any other battle gear you might have, or it could be the *last* fun thing you do... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 July 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteWould Buffy approve? I don't care if she approves or not; As long as it doesn't trigger the chip in my head, I'll do as I bloody well please. You're a ghost now so the chip don't effect you anymore, and anyways Buffy Dumped you, and you fugged of to LAYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #21 July 24, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteWould Buffy approve? I don't care if she approves or not; As long as it doesn't trigger the chip in my head, I'll do as I bloody well please. You're a ghost now so the chip don't effect you anymore, and anyways Buffy Dumped you, and you fugged of to LA ok now you guys are focusing to much on the 'geek' part of the title...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
