SuperKat 0 #1 October 3, 2004 I just bought a Bonehead Optik Illusion helmet. After baking the liners for a custom fit and planning the position of the D-box to the helmet, I decided follow the instructions and test the cutaway system before jumping with it. I put the helmet on and then I softly pull the cutaway handle....nothing. I expected the pin and springs to fling all over the place. I took off the helmet and removed the padding and saw that the end of the cotter pin was still in the eyelet. I push the cotter pin back in and then give it another try. This time I yanked it harder and faster...nothing. I took off the helmet and then removed the padding. Same thing. The end tip of the cotter pin was still in the eyelet. I push the cotter pin all the way in again and try it again. This time I yanked the cutaway handle with all my strength and superfast....nothing. I took off the liners again and this time I pulled the cutaway handle while pulling the helmet away in the opposite direction. I'm pulling hard and fast on both ends and still nothing. I think it's safe to assume that this fuckin' thing is not working properly. Should it be that hard to pull on a cutaway system for a helmet? I'm really pissed man. I waited 4 weeks for this thing to arrive and now the fuckin' thing doesn't even work properly. Is it me or what? What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zee 0 #2 October 3, 2004 Just give Bonehead a buzz dude - I've been using their helmets for about 5 years now and they've been nothing but good to me. I even lost an entire set-up after a disastrous opening (shit happens) and they had a new custom FTP in my hands in about a week. Bonehead is a good company to have as a friend - I'm pretty damned sure if you give them a call they'll be happy to help you figure out what's going on with your cutaway system - Hopefully, you'll never have to use it........... Peace, Z Action©Sports Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 October 3, 2004 #1) Nice of you to bust them out without contacting them first. #2) The system works fine in every helmet I've played with. #3) With your jump numbers where's your cameraflying mentor you should be teamed up with to help you understand how it should work?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #4 October 3, 2004 I'll call them and ask what's going on. I'm a tad bit scared to use it without making sure the cutaway system works. I'm sure nothing will happen but you never know. Thanks Z. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #5 October 3, 2004 Quote#1) Nice of you to bust them out without contacting them first. No no no. I'm not busting on them. I was pissed off because I had to wait four weeks for the helmet to arrive. And then I was so excited baking the liners for a custom fit and then planning out the d-box mounting and what not. And then, the darn thing didn't work. I even asked in my post, is it me that's wrong? Quote#2) The system works fine in every helmet I've played with.I totally believe you and I'm sure it does. However, no one is perfect. There could be flaws here and there. I could even be the one that's at fault here. I was just posting my angst. Quote#3) With your jump numbers where's your cameraflying mentor you should be teamed up with to help you understand how it should work?Dude, I was planning on just giving up. #1. I posted this thread for help. #2. If I wasn't going to get helpful feedback here, I was going to talk to the guyz at the DZ. And it's mentors, not mentor. I would have asked Paul Ericskman, Dave Pancake, Danny Koon, Adam Rosenberg, Heath Richardson, etc. Whenever I do something new or have a problem, I always get a 3rd, 4th, 5th or even 60th opinion on something. Which is what I'm going to do right now after I finish typing this reply. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #6 October 3, 2004 You should of gotten a small instruction sheet with the helmet explaining the cutaway system and how it works. I understand your frustration but all is not lost. Have you tried to manually take the cutaway system apart (disassemble) and then reassemble it? If you continue to have problems give Linda a call at BoneHead and she will take care of you. If you have any questions feel free to PM me."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 October 3, 2004 Hehe... boneheadcomposites.com is offline because they forgot to renew their domain name Their cutaway system is almost identical to the one that I posted on here months before they started selling it... so here is a question. You say the cotter pin is still in the bolt, but how far are you pulling it out? It should come all the way out, that includes the cutaway handle and all.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #8 October 3, 2004 Let us know what you learn after you contact Bonehead. It -is- a hard yank/pull to get the cotter pin out. I'm glad for that, 'cause I've had a few hardish openings and am sure glad that the cutaway system didn't pop as if it were a soft pull scenario for it to release. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #9 October 4, 2004 I went back to the gear store. I showed the manager how the system wasn't working. We both tried it a couple of times. We had to fanagle the cutaway handle and push the spring back in for the cutaway system to actually work. And you wouldn't believe it.....After trying the cutaway system the last time, the steel cable broke off from both ends of the copper connecter which the steel cable is connected to. Anyway, back to the main point. I noticed that the tip of the cotter pin kept getting stuck by the end of the cleavis pin and the washer. So I took out the washer and connected all the pieces together. That seemed to do the trick. I had consecutive test cutaways afterwards. Now the only problem is the steel cable. I guess I pulled on it too hard. Would you see this as problem? The crimped connector releasing both ends of the steel cable after a hard pull? And yes, I've manually took the system apart and reassembled it. That's how I noticed the cotter pin getting stuck between washer and the cleavis pin. Thanks for the tip. I'm going to call Linda tomorrow. Blue skies. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #10 October 4, 2004 Quotehow far are you pulling it out? It should come all the way out, that includes the cutaway handle and all.Trust me, myself, two other people and even the gear store manager tried cutting away the system to no avail. Someone pointed out to me that the spring should be cut so that it will alleviate some of the tension on the cotter pin. I discovered that removing the washer from the inside of the helmet that went into the cleavis did the trick. I don't think I should be cutting the spring because I'm comprimising the recoil distance of that spring. Anyway, the manufacturer designed that spring to be that size for a reason. I just think that my cutaway system on my helmet is defective. I'm going to contact bonehead and see what happens. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #11 October 4, 2004 QuoteIt -is- a hard yank/pull to get the cotter pin out. I'm glad for thatTrust me we were all pulling it on very hard. I pulled so hard on it, I yanked out the two ends of the steel cable from the crimped connector. I don't think that was made well because since the crimped connector was lost, the cotter pin was still in the cleavis pin and both end of the steel cable were exposed. The steel cables were kinked and if you know what it feels like to be pricked by individual steel cables, it's not cool. I got 5 pin pricks that broke skin and shed blood trying to pull the steel cable to release the cotter pin. I had to test if I could still pull on the steel cable without the crimped connector. I'm sure I could have if I remove the washer from the cleavis pin but it would still hurt like a mother.... What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hottamaly 1 #12 October 4, 2004 I'm real sorry you are having problems with this and if you would just call us FIRST, we could send you out a replacement. We are not on this site 24/7 to read about these things and now that it's Monday, we would like to get this resolved for you. An email to us would have been replied to already if we had received one. I'll try calling you if we have your phone number. Skydiving gave me a reason to live I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hottamaly 1 #13 October 4, 2004 It would also help if I knew who you are. No name listed. Skydiving gave me a reason to live I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #14 October 4, 2004 Wow. Thanks. Don't be sorry. Nothing is perfect. I'm happy that the instructions that came with the helmet insisted on trying out the cutaway system prior to jumping with it. Unfortunately, your site is down and I have no e-mail or telephone contact numbers. I'll PM you instead. Thanks again. What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SuperKat 0 #15 October 4, 2004 Issue resolved. Linda from bonehead composites was very pro-active in resolving my situation. I'm a happy camper and I'm leaving it as that. Blue skies. Bone head rocks! What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #16 October 5, 2004 I know this probably isn’t going to be a popular response but… Given that people abandoned pin and spring cutaway systems for their canopies years ago in favour of the three-ring-circus, why on earth are some companies persisting in trying to sell us them for our helmets? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #17 October 5, 2004 Because a helmet isn't a canopy, and 3 rings (or 2 rings) on helmets are not always practical, comfortable or functional. I can think of one manufacturer who used both the pin and spring and the "ring" systems on different helmets of their line. I know of another manufacturer that insists on the ring system and it just plain doesn't work right.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #18 October 6, 2004 But we plan for the worst-case scenario don't we... the worst-case scenario for a cutaway system on a helmet is a canopy attached to the jumpers head via their helmet. In that instance why not use the same system as we have on our mains? – it’s performing the same task. And if some manufacturers can't make a ring system work right the answer is simply not to use them as opposed to flatly abandoning the whole concept based on a couple of poor examples. There are ring systems on the market that work perfectly. It’s not that hard to produce your own. There is little need to persist with a concept that has been shown to be inferior when another is freely available (save for cost, aesthetics, and comfort where applicable together with the informed acceptance of the risks inherent in abandoning the most efficient system available). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #19 October 6, 2004 Actually the ring system was used since it facilitated a single point, dual release and it reduced the forces to levels that were much lower then other systems had. In the case of a camera helmet entangement can you really imagine the forces being so high that you actually need a 100:1 reduction of force to be survivible? I think that even at 200 pounds hanging on your head you are probally looking at damage or death due to neck injuries. A single release of any method works as long as the end goal is a single side release that does not see an increase in the force needed to release even as tension is increased on the helmet. Rings are thought to be by many jumpers to be the ultimate answer to every type of release needed for skydiving, and they work great in any instance that you need to reduce the force needed to breakaway due to tension (mains, tubes, flags, etc) but they are a poor choice for low force situations.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 October 6, 2004 Quotebut they are a poor choice for low force situations Yes. The do require some force to operate on their own. The best designs for low force applications are also mounted on a hard surface unlike a riser.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hottamaly 1 #21 October 6, 2004 We came up with this system because so many folks were wanting something to be able to install to facilitate the cutting away of their helmet. I'm sure there are allot of other great ideas out there as well. I just don't see anyone coming up with one to market. If it's so easy, why don't you sell them? Skydiving gave me a reason to live I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #22 October 6, 2004 It’s not the cutaway force I’m worried about. It’s the fact that some designs have been noted to lock off against themselves when subjected to a load. I am quite happy to admit that I am out of the realms of my formal education when it comes to the design of cutaway systems so the engineers amongst you will have an advantage on me here. The only real experience I have to draw on is playing around on weather hold with different helmet cutaway designs. When the wearer was suspended by their helmet with the aid of two assistants, it was observed that some cutaway systems would lock up under the weight of the wearer while some others continued to work efficiently. I noted that the cutaway system I had built for myself at the time would sometimes lock depending on the angle at which it was worked. Other designs always locked against themselves despite having the handle/cable/user interface completely removed from the system. My point being that whilst the cutaway forces were still easily manageable on these systems, the cutaway mechanism itself was vulnerable to failure simply by virtue of a load being placed upon it. I’ve since switched to a design which was noted to work regardless of whether it was loaded or not. I must add the caveat that it is perfectly possible that the examples tested were simply poor examples of their respective systems or indeed merely faulty. Without having a designer present it is not terribly easy to confirm one way or another but it was still an interesting comparison to make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 October 7, 2004 Well.. I have to ask, where did you come up with the design from? I posted directions on here how to build something extremely similar back in summer of 2002, I don't seem to recall Bonehead releasing the design till either late 2003 or early 2004. >If it's so easy, why don't you sell them? Instead I posted directions here I guess I should have sent the thing in to Skydiving Magazine instead and asked for $20 for the less then $3 I put into it. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 October 7, 2004 I'm more curious why you use different systems on the different helmets. I'm a big fan of the cuttaway system on the FTP - which is largely why I bought one. The engineer in me disliked the springloaded ones because it seems like they'd be prone to jamming, and this case seems to reinforce that. The engineer in me also loves the simplicity of the FTP hinge. Why not put a FTP style hinge on the Optik? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #25 October 7, 2004 QuoteWhy not put a FTP style hinge on the Optik? Where would it go? the optik has a chincup, there isn't a place for a hinge. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
