Non-slammin' Sabres ?

[DYEVOUT 0]

I'm a student on a Sabre 230. I have read a lot of threads about Sabres ripping people apart on hard openings. I am considering purchasing my first rig (used) and most of the ones I've been looking at contain Sabres.

I know a few people that jump them, and some that have in the past - and I haven't heard of any "slammage" from any of them. Is this just a problem on certain individual 'chutes, new ones, or what?

I'm learning packing from a rigger, and we split the nose, roll each side in, and tuck the center cell. Has anyone found credible evidence that Sabres are prone to hurt people, or is it just because there are so many out there, the odds of a hard opening are greater?

--Curious

----------------=8^)----------------------
"I think that was the wrong tennis court."

[jlmiracle 7]

My first canopy was a Sabre. My openings were inconsistant but over all a good canopy. I was slammed several times BUT several people I know wouldn't jump anything but a sabre and say they have never had a bad opening.

IMO, it all depends on the wing loading. It seems that the people who really like their Sabre, have a little larger Sabre (170 or greater) and are wing loading it 1.1 or higher.

Good luck.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[darkwing 5]

I am convinced that there is no slam-proof canopy. Sure, you can find lots of people who say "I've got XXX jumps on my canopy and I have never been slammed." But that certainly doesn't mean it never happens. Some canopies have a repuation (and don't confuse reportation with actuality) for having more frequent slammers than others, which I think is likely true. A canopy with a reputation for mellow openings is the PC Spectre, but it is certainly capable of a slammer.

Also, I firmly believe that there is NO packing technique which can give a perfect anti-slamming guarantee.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[BETO74 0]

My first canopy was a sabre, I think is a great canopy to learn under loads 1:1 or less, I used to love their openings they are relatively fast (that’s what I wanted at that point in time) it was enough risk for me to jump out an airplane to have a canopy that takes it's time to open and me wonder if I’m going to have an emergency?
After a hundred jumps or so a Try a Safire 169 slightly elliptical and I fell in love with the soft openings, now I have a Croosfire and the openings for me are like safires (Soft). Now I love soft openings I wouldn’t have it any other way.
I think you should take the time to learn your canopy. Sabres are great canopys and is a great begining in your canopy progression.

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[rapper4mpi 0]

I think the Sabre has become a great transition canopy for those on a tighter budget. There are so many of them out there, that you can find them at great prices. Sabres have been known to slam their fair share of jumpers, however, it was more often packing error, due to the fact that they do not like to be packed sloppily. I know several jumpers with thousands of jumps on small sabres with no slams, others jumping a 170 that slammed them constantly.
Here's a solution, get the appropriate sized Sabre, learn to pack it correctly and carefully. Then if your openings are still too brisk for your liking, I've found calling PD and asking for a larger slider will solve the problem instantly. Good luck!
-Rap

[ccowden 0]

I had a Sabre and experienced alot of hard openings. Didn't seem to matter how I packed it. But I absolutely loved the way it flew and landed! So when I went to a new canopy and was recommended a Sabre2, I was hesitant even though I was assured that the opening problems were fixed. Much to my delight, I have over 150 jumps on this new Sabre2 and I don't have a single complaint. The openings are perfect. Soft, but not too long, and on heading! And the new Sabre2 flies like a dream and has a pretty respectable surf. If you like the characteristics of the Sabre, then I definitely would recommend a Sabre2!

[Zenister 0]

i've got some 150 jumps on a sabre 190.(loaded at 1.14) and its only slammed me once (pulled in a track..but when its time to pull its time to pull

..i have a slightly larger slider than came with it originally (was added before i got the canopy) but its really about the way its packed..i dont roll the nose, but i do push it back into the canopy and make sure the slider is quartered well then pull it slightly forward to make a "big smile"

my opennings like this arent as nice and pretty as they are when amy packs it, but then shes ALOT more current on packing then i'll ever be..

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[freekflyguy 0]

All the staff rigs at RAPA are Sabres ranging from 135 to 170, with one Sabre 2.

I jump a Sabre 170 loaded at 1.3, and have put about 300 jumps on it from new.

Mostly I get good openings, unless I forget to pull the slider right out from the nose when I pack it.

I would say I have had half a dozen hard openings, but when it slams, it slams.

I try not to use it when flying camera, I much prefer my Jonathan 150 loaded at 1.5. Lovely openeings every time, especially since I got it relined by Brian.

If you are getting slammed regularly try pulling the slider right out when packing.

Buzz

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[Joyner 0]

I put 200 jumps on mine and wasn't slammed once, about 150 of those were camera jumps, so I would remember. I loaded it at 1.4. I NEVER rolled the nose at all! I just let it hang, and then I pulled the slider out in front of the nose! I had wonderfull consistent openings, allways on heading! I experimented with rolling the nose both as you describe and also just to roll the entire nose in one roll. But that only caused off heading oppenings and didn't do much to slow it down

[bwilling 0]

The subject of hard openings has been beat to death in these forums, and if you do a search, you'll find lots of revelant data regarding hard openings in general, with some specific to the Sabre...

I have a 210 Sabre, but it's got a pocketed slider on it, so it snivels like crazy on opening. I don't roll the nose at all, and roll the tail just enough to control the pack job, quarter the slider, but don't pull it out over the nose...

Don't be afraid of the Sabre... any canopy has the potential to open hard and slam you, the Sabre included, but there's lots of ways to tame the openings (packing technique, larger or pocketed slider, etc...) on those faster opening canopies... and the Sabre is a nice docile canopy at low wing loadings, making it an ideal canopy to learn to fly on...

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[matttrudeau 0]

I would try to get a Sabre2. I have one now and it opens like a dream. Longer than the original Sabre but shorter than a Spectre. Don't be afraid of the original Sabre either. It wasn't the best selling canopy for nothing.

[Yoshi 0]

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Also, I firmly believe that there is NO packing technique which can give a perfect anti-slamming guarantee.

If you tie the canopy in a knot I am pretty sure that is an anti slamming pack job...wont quite open, but...yeah just being a smart ass:):):)

_________________________________________
this space for rent.

[f1freak 0]

Roll the shit out of the tail and you'll be fine....

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[skybytch 273]

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yeah just being a smart ass

Please keep that to TalkBack. This is a topical forum.

Thanks.

[JYorkster 0]

350+ jumps on an original Sabre, and I've never been slammed. It does open a little quicker than some other canopies, but I believe the rumors of hard openings are exaggerrated. I always pack my own, never roll the nose, and have consistent, nice, on-heading openings.

Rock

[payback462 0]

i jumped a sabre 190 once (never actually landed it, but we wont go there) when i packed it i rolled the nose 4+4 stuffed it inside the packjob, pulled the slider out really far, and rolled the crap out of the tail. it gave me a nice loong snivel and was on par with the spectre openings ive become accustomed to.

i also jumped a sabre2 190 the other day that i thought was going to snivel to impact for a couple seconds there, it took a good 1100ft to open and all i did was roll the tail

[rigging65 0]

Canopies are like people...no two are exactly alike. Some models are more prone to certain "personalities" than others (ie - hard/soft openings, spinning, light/heavy toggle pressure, etc.) but the fact is, until they are cut and sewn by machines, there will always be variances between any two of them. Some of these may be major, some so minor you can't tell they're there.

When mfgs. changed over to automated cutting systems, there was a large leap in the standardization of "personalities" for a given model, but there is still a lot of human input into the sewing process...and anything done by humans will be different from one instance to the next...even if only slightly.

What this means to all of us, is that any canopy can be a slammer or a creampuff...you simply won't know until you jump it a few dozen times and see what it does.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[freakyflyr11 0]

my first canopy was a saber 150 and it slammed me all the time!didnt matter how i packed it.but alot of people say theirs dont and open good all the time.i think there is more people who say their a great canopy.besides the openings i liked mine it flew great even in turblance id recomend one for some one makeing the transition from square to semi eleptical.and you cant go wrong with a pd canopy.

[jbrasher 1]

I have a Sabre 150 w/ around 300-400 jumps on it.
It wouls occasionally slam me so I've added a pocket to my slider and the opening are very nice.

Good canopy in any case.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[MontyPyhton 0]

Old Sabers are often slammers because they have smaller sliders.
Newer (since 1998 or so) Sabres are open softer.

A great packing method is to roll the cells TIGHT and stuff them into thenter cell DEEP.
That gives a lot of snivel.
Rolling the tail tight brings nothing because the major reason of rolling the tail is to hold the slider in position.
I have rolled the cells tight but the tail loose and have had long snivels with slow inflation (1000 ft. openings).

[mickb 0]

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I try not to use it when flying camera, I much prefer my Jonathan 150 loaded at 1.5. Lovely openeings every time, especially since I got it relined by Brian.

with you on that one i have the samuria 150
sweetest openings ever

Fear is that little darkroom where negatives are developed.
Michael Pritchard.

[b1jercat 0]

Ya I agree role the tail to hold the slider, I psyco pack. work likes a charm. blue skies

[riggerrob 643]

I doubt that rolling the tail makes much difference in how the tail inflates, rather I believe that the primary function of rolling the tail is to hold the slider in its correct position (hard up against the slider stops) while you bag the canopy.

As for Sabre Mark 1s slamming people, yes I have been slammed a few times by Sabre Mark 1s, but I believe that it is largely a matter of packing technique.

And yes I have sewn a bunch of pockets onto the sliders of Sabre Mark 1s. At one point my Sabre 170 Mark 1 had so many pockets (4) that it opened so slowly that I quit doing hop-and-pops with it!Hee! Hee!
Back to packing technique: lately I have been jumping a Diablo 135 and an Ariel 150. Diablos have a reputation for soft openings, but any time I get lazy when stowing rubber bands, this Diablo reminds me.
On the other hand, I got the Ariel (a close competitor to Sabre Mark 1) for cheap because the original owner could not handle any more hard openings. This Ariel has never slammed me.
Which gets us back to my original point about packing being the biggest variable.

[tosca 0]

I have jumped a Sabre 135 for 500 jumps. I have only had 2 hard openings. My openings in general are a little fast, but not slamming.

I tried another sabre for 10 jumps. Same size, same age, same number of jumps as my canopy, but I got really hard openings every jump. Maybe it was just coincidences, too few jumps to know, but it seemed like different canopies could act differently.

[betzilla 56]

A Sabre is most likely not going to hurt you, although it may give you a "positive" opening
There are two different size sliders available from PD for Sabres -- make sure you have the larger size -- that should help.

Are you tucking the outer cells INTO the center cell? Somebody told me once that doing that with ZP isn't a good idea -- it can cause tears in the fabric. Maybe that's a wives' tale, though...