Safety Day - RW camera concerns

[DrewGPM 0]

We are preparing a safety day presentation for RW, specifically for 4-way. We have a lot of input from experienced team guys, but very little from camera folks.

We are pointing out that the video person is an important part of a 4-way team, so all safety standards apply to her/him too. We are adding that the videographer always gets the center, but someone should remind everyone of that on each jump. Encourage good tracking and responsible break off altitude.

Are there any other safety things that the team members should know about that team mate with the camera on his/her head?

[hipgnosis 0]

I'm on the other end of the camera for 4-way, but can add these items :

1) Determine who is in charge of the spot and how he/she is going to indicate climb out. For my team the OC and camera are in the door, the OC signals when to go and starts the climbout.

2) Discuss aborted climbout procedures aka how to get the video back into the plane. Usually this will involve OC climbing out and acting as a wind block, with tail helping the video back in. Of course this might not be feasible depending on the plane/video.



Bill

[BlueSBDeath 2]

Something I am always thinking when above any group of skydivers:
"There are X-number of AAD's that could kill you at any moment"


Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[diablopilot 2]

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Discuss aborted climbout procedures aka how to get the video back into the plane. Usually this will involve OC climbing out and acting as a wind block, with tail helping the video back in.

Bad idea. If one member of your team (there are 5) is climed out alread, the exit needs to happen. It is WAY unsafe to climb a camera man back in the A/C.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[hipgnosis 0]

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Bad idea. If one member of your team (there are 5) is climed out alread, the exit needs to happen. It is WAY unsafe to climb a camera man back in the A/C.

So, what you are saying is that if the camera man climbs out we have to go regardless? That somehow appears to be a bad idea to me as well.

Different teams will have different ideas what they want to do in this case, but at least knowing in advance that their team policy is to wave at the video guy as he drops off to do a solo is better than the confusion I've seen at some competitions.

[jeiber 0]

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It is WAY unsafe to climb a camera man back in the A/C.

Could you elaborate please?

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[diablopilot 2]

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Could you elaborate please?

The likelyhood of a premature deployment goes up, as does the potential for injury from attempting to climb back in the A/C.

Add to that it's just plain not cool to hose your team member like that. Once you spotter has made the call to go, the group needs to go. There is really nothing that will change that.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Different teams will have different ideas what they want to do in this case,

IT's a matter of jumper and A/C safety. Land out, before you endanger the aircraft.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ltdiver 3]

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2) Discuss aborted climbout procedures aka how to get the video back into the plane. Usually this will involve OC climbing out and acting as a wind block, with tail helping the video back in. Of course this might not be feasible depending on the plane/video.

Yes. Thank you. And something I had to educate the team I flew with last Saturday.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

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Add to that it's just plain not cool to hose your team member like that. Once you spotter has made the call to go, the group needs to go. There is really nothing that will change that.

Yes, this is true. I wish all teams I shot believed in this. However, if there is danger underneath the aircraft (i.e. and unseen plane coming underneath our jump aircraft, or something else we don't know that the pilot is alerted to) an assist back into the plane just -may- be necessary.

It was our policy last year, with the team I flew with, that once climbed out we -went-. I never had to climb back in. This year, however, it has happened to me once already. And the one who called the shot was our pilot...and the coach who was player/coach on the team I was filming.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[AndyMan 7]

Closing flaps, and closing loops.

There are way too many jumpers (especially at hinckley) who reguarly jump gear where the closing flap opens in freefall. JS's gear is especially bad.

Open closing flaps will ensure off-center video.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[linestretch 0]

I don't think it's that big of a deal climbing back in the plane only because I've done it a LOT, and think it's pretty damn funny. Yeah, you are probably raising the risk of a premature deploy but I think getting others in there pulling on you to get back in makes it worse. Then again, I've never had a problem climbing back in...laughing as I was doing it. Not too mention, it's hard for the tandem instructor to pull you in...but we are talking about 4way....

my pics & stuff!

[riggerrob 643]

Remind all skydivers that vidiots need a strong VISIBLE exit count.
Remind up jumpers that vidiots have terrible peripheral vision, ergo, they need more room to manuver under cnaopy.
Anyone who expects a vidiot to get out of his way is an idiot.
It takes two people to collide, but only one person to avoid a collision.

[Kwoo 0]

Gear check, gear check, gear check.
It is obvious that a jumper's premature deployment can be dangerous for both the videographer and the jumper. But a lot of other things flying at the videographer can be distracting and painful as well. I have dodged or been hit by faceshileds, altimeters, pull up cords, a helmet and even a shoe!. It is amazing how much a brightly colored bandanna can look like a pilot chute! Funny now, very scary then.
karen

[PhreeZone 20]

Vidots need to be looking at only at the formation for sighting purposes, but should also be visually scanning the formation looking for loose objects that are about to come screaming their way, including pilot chutes. I've seen 1 ROL about half out and a bunch of BOC's that have an inch of material hanging out that are prematures waiting to happen. During the dirt dive the videot should scan the rigs to make sure the PC is all the way in and no flaps are open or anything.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ltdiver 3]

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Remind all skydivers that vidiots need a strong VISIBLE exit count.

First off, lets not call us 'vidiots'. It infers that we're less than we are...and IMHO, we're not rhymed with 'idiots'.

Second...yeah it's nice to have a nice visable count. However, we all know that the top teams pride themselves on giving a 'stealth count', thus not letting the judges pre-start their exit time.
ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[lewmonst 0]

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Remind all skydivers that vidiots need a strong VISIBLE exit count.

Second...yeah it's nice to have a nice visable count. However, we all know that the top teams pride themselves on giving a 'stealth count', thus not letting the judges pre-start their exit time.

yeah...

there's no leg swinging in Open.

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[Zoter 0]

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Closing flaps, and closing loops.

There are way too many jumpers (especially at hinckley) who reguarly jump gear where the closing flap opens in freefall. JS's gear is especially bad.

I am looking to start filming a junior 4 way Team this season.
Would it be 'prudent' for me (as the camera person) to do all their gear checks prior to boarding ?? ( as opposed to getting others doing the gear checks)
Any other vid people do this ??
Is this a good 'pattern' to foster
I mean the other person most likey to get hurt in the event of a prem or something.....is the person filming them...so it would be like additional gear checks that helps save me from trouble
I ...at the grand 'ol total of 200 carry the 'highest' jump #'s in the group and.....due to my freeflying .....am the most anal regarding 'tight' equipment....

[YahooLV 0]

If I climb out, we go! Unless there is a serious problem, then someone can block the wind as I crawl back in.

(Tandems are finicky that way) Teams or groups-GO!

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[smooth 0]

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There are way too many jumpers (especially at hinckley) who reguarly jump gear where the closing flap opens in freefall. JS's gear is especially bad.

I think you were addressing Drew directly but - that's a pretty bold, blanket statement to make., especially on a public forum. Is the gear in use at Hinckley that bad !?!

I have to agree with the JS statement though. . . oddly enough I was looking at some video this weekend and what caught my attention was JS's closing flap - flapping in the breeze - on climbbout.

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Open closing flaps will ensure off-center video.

[ZoneRat 0]

It's never happened to me, but once in a great while, I'll see a team member decide to carry some food or a water bottle onto the plane. You know... Back to backs all day. No time to eat. When they're done, they stick the stuff in their jumpsuit somewhere. (The bootie area seemed popular).

Yeah. That water bottle or plastic fork would hurt like hell if it got loose in freefall. Prolly anything that might come loose in freefall would. Spare change or jewelry or whatever.

So... I'd discourage that kinda thing.

Also, it occurs to me as I sit here thinking that it might be useful to have the camera guy designated to follow gear down if there's a cutaway. That way you don't have 5 people zipping around a detached main. Plus he can film where it lands if he can't actually land there himself. Just a thought.

Camera deploying at break-off rather than at team pull alt is generally recommended.

If the camera has a smaller canopy than many of the team members, they should know he'll likely be fly through their pattern at some point.

If I'm going to be making 4 copies of the days jumps, it improves the safety margin of the team to provide cued tapes and a couple cold ones...

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”