quade 4 #26 April 24, 2003 QuoteIf 30%+ of traffic accidents could be prevented by placing limits on horsepower, you bet the government would do it. Of course, horsepower isn't what makes a vehicle go fast -- not really. You can get a vehicle to go over 100 mph on about 1 horsepower if you design it correctly. It's not something that's going to be "street legal", but that's not really the point.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #27 April 25, 2003 When I first saw them in a canopy I asked as well. more gain no pain.... If people want to protect their experience level its ok. me thinks there is a bit more going on than I will continue with. I am a smartass.. always have been. But then again I am a walking talking older and wiser smart ass. Amazon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #28 April 25, 2003 i got you beat michele, i learned about crossports after my 2nd tandem, the canopy had end cell closure and after we got down i asked how end cell closure happens and my instructor also showed me the crossports and explained what they do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #29 April 25, 2003 LOL, Payback, I think you do have me beat....Amazon, I too am a smart ass..... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #30 April 25, 2003 Well, "mate" - maybe some people are getting pissed off by the number of injuries and death under perfectly deployed canopies.... If the sport continues down this road government regulations will come in, be sure of that. In some countries local federations have been smart enough to self-regulate. I am trying to get insurance for disability and death covering skydiving and I can not - which is a problem when you have wife and kids and want to ensure they are OK if shit happens. And yes, I blame partly those guys who jump equipment they can not handle safely and hook themselves in. I get annoyed when I see posts like this and the one where a guys with 160 jumps buys a Stiletto loaded at 1.5 because he wants to be able to get back to the DZ after a bad spot. Apologies for the rant, but the "anything goes - its a free society" attitude is getting to me.--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #31 April 25, 2003 QuoteOf course, horsepower isn't what makes a vehicle go fast -- not really. High wingloading isn't what kills skydivers -- not really. That won't stop the USPA or FAA from restricting or banning small canopies if they think it will save lives. Edit to add: The two accidents I've witnessed caused by too much horsepower didn't really have anything to do with speed. One was a 16 year old with a suped-up Trans Am. Spun it when he got to heavy on the throttle going around a corner. Several thousand dollars worth of damage. In my car, I regularly punch it around the same corner and don't squeal the tires. The major difference is between our cars was a couple hundred horsepower. The other accident I saw was caused by a recently licensed motorcyclist laying out an 1100cc bike trying something that he had gotten away with a couple of times on his friend's 450cc. The accidents in both cases weren't caused by the power of the vehicles, but by the riders inexperience and resulting inability to handle that power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #33 April 25, 2003 The USPA -may- someday move to put some sort of restriction on higher wingloaded canopies. I -seriously- doubt the FAA ever would. You really have very little to fear from the FAA on that point. The FAA in its handling of skydiving is almost non-existant. Where the FAA gets involved isn't in saving you from yourself, but rather saving innocent people from what you might do. Generally speaking, if you want to kill yourself in any aviation endevor, it's pretty much ok by them -- just don't take out anyone with you.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #34 April 25, 2003 QuoteWell, "mate" - maybe some people are getting pissed off by the number of injuries and death under perfectly deployed canopies.... If the sport continues down this road government regulations will come in, be sure of that. In some countries local federations have been smart enough to self-regulate. I am trying to get insurance for disability and death covering skydiving and I can not - which is a problem when you have wife and kids and want to ensure they are OK if shit happens. And yes, I blame partly those guys who jump equipment they can not handle safely and hook themselves in. I get annoyed when I see posts like this and the one where a guys with 160 jumps buys a Stiletto loaded at 1.5 because he wants to be able to get back to the DZ after a bad spot. Apologies for the rant, but the "anything goes - its a free society" attitude is getting to me. To clarify, I was saying "free society" that no one has to reveal their wing loading or jump numbers on an Internet message board, not what you seem to think I meant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSkydiver 0 #35 April 25, 2003 Hey Andrew. I'm the last person to give anyone advice on this or any other thread, but you did say you were looking for some education. Most responses are given by jumpers with 100's to 1000's of jumps. There is your education. I ask info in here so much people are probably tired of seeing my damn name, but i post what my experience level is to get the best advice and information that i can from these veteran jumpers who may save my life with their advice. When you refuse to give wingload, jump #'s, exit weight etc etc etc its going to make people think your a newbie like me. I only have 64 jumps under my belt and I could have told you what all those holes were. You got pounded by the vets and its sad to see that happen. Have fun with your new canopy and be safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #36 April 25, 2003 Andrew, Yes Tom was a moron for going in on a two way with his cypres turned off. You only have to be a moron for less then 60 sec. one time in this sport. If you have the jumps you claim why have you not learned about crossports? What else have you not taken the time to learn? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #37 April 25, 2003 Norman, Those veteran jumpers can also learn from the newbie. All the experts in the sport are dead. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SSkydiver 0 #38 April 25, 2003 I couldnt agree with you more sparky. So are you an expert or veteran? I would guess veteran seeing how your still alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #39 April 25, 2003 QuoteAndrew, Yes Tom was a moron for going in on a two way with his cypres turned off. You only have to be a moron for less then 60 sec. one time in this sport. If you have the jumps you claim why have you not learned about crossports? What else have you not taken the time to learn? Sparky As far as my comment about Tom goes, I think sarcasm is lost on you. And regarding "What else have you not taken the time to learn?", I couldn't ask for a better example of what I feel is the prevailing attitude here towards mocking/criticising people who ask innocent questions looking for honest advice. The irony is that Hook answered my question in about 5 minutes after my post went up! The entire thread from that point onwards has accomplished nothing other than spreading bad feeling and your post does nothing but continue that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 April 25, 2003 After reviewing the beginning of the thread.. you asked. it was answered.. then the language barrier hit.... soon after the flame war started... (sigh) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #41 April 25, 2003 Asked and answered...then.... Quote What else have you not taken the time to learn? I've jumped with extremely talented skydivers with 1000's of jumps that haven't a clue what a cross port is.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #42 April 25, 2003 Quote Asked and answered...then.... Quote What else have you not taken the time to learn? I've jumped with extremely talented skydivers with 1000's of jumps that haven't a clue what a cross port is. There is a god and his name is hookitt! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #43 April 25, 2003 LOL!!!! I would't go that far... but that's funny :)My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #44 April 25, 2003 >I've jumped with extremely talented skydivers with 1000's of jumps that haven't a clue what a cross port is. How many of them drop their rigs and have a packer pack them? Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #45 April 25, 2003 Quote How many of them drop their rigs and have a packer pack them? I'm sure you know that answerMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #46 April 25, 2003 Oh my god, it's full of holes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZag 0 #47 April 25, 2003 You will want to get your canopy inspected at regular intervals, and crossports are what riggers check out as well. In a way the ribs are already weak in that area, as a good chunk of material is missing. The edges of crossports can fray over a number of jumps and at some point repairs may become neccessary. Once the fraying becomes bad, structural integrity of the rib is compromised and tears towards the top or bottom skin can occur, leading to other damage. Please keep asking questions and some of us will try to give you the info as best as we can. You are on the right track here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #48 April 25, 2003 QuoteI've jumped with extremely talented skydivers with 1000's of jumps that haven't a clue what a cross port is. NO WAY! That's impossible! Everyone knows that ALL GOOD skydivers know what a crossport is. Expert skydivers know the exact dimensions and placement of the crossports on every canopy, at least that's what I hear. Are you sure about this? Maybe it was a dream. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #49 April 25, 2003 You asked a question and demand a straight answer.You were asked several questions and answered with sarcasm. If you want honest advice try being honest. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #50 April 25, 2003 Look, I'm sorry you feel I jumped on you, that was not my intention. The only real reason I asked is that your profile wouldn't come up and I couldn't see that you had a 400-ish jumps. What you thought was me bashing you, was the same conversation I've had with my students (yes more then a few) about what they thought a proper canopy choice was. Its about having respect for your fellow skydiver, and one of the ways I show that respect for my fellow skydivers, is to try to keep low-timers from getting in over their heads. Case in point, I was worried you only had 30-some jumps and you were about to find yourself in a whole world of hurt under a Cobalt (yeah, Dan Preston says they're perfect for students, yada yada yada...bullshit).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
