New lineset

[ZigZag 0]

How would you know?
What are you looking for?
Are there telltale signs?
What is shrinkage?
How does the slider affect your lines?
How do different line materials react to heat?

Post some of your experiences. Lets get the riggers on this forum involved. Any questions?

[AggieDave 6]

How are your openings?
Have they gotten worst over time?
Does your canopy want to fly a certain direction left or right?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skycat 0]

Quote

How would you know?
What are you looking for?
Are there telltale signs?
What is shrinkage?
How does the slider affect your lines?
How do different line materials react to heat?

Post some of your experiences. Lets get the riggers on this forum involved. Any questions?

Well it depends on the line, vectran and HMA don't shrink so you have to look for wear, spectra does shrink and is usually out of trim before it wears out.

You can tell when vectran needs to be replaced, the line is very grey and very fuzzy (~400 jumps)

Spectra is more shrinkage and you may need to contact the manufacturer about how much is acceptable. (usually ~400 jumps)

HMA - you will have to contact PA, since I know very little about it, but it's like vectran on it depends on wear.

Fly it like you stole it!

[andy2 0]

as a sidenote, how much money does it cost to reline a canopy? I have never seen a figure for this. Thanks! (not trying to hijack the thread, all I need is one correct answer then we can get back to the original question)

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[BETO74 0]

I just spended $ 289 on my vectran for a modified Crossfire Skyworks did the job and it looks great, very satisfied with them. That to me was one thing that did not go wrong that week.

info@skyworksparachute.com

http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html

[skycat 0]

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as a sidenote, how much money does it cost to reline a canopy? I have never seen a figure for this. Thanks! (not trying to hijack the thread, all I need is one correct answer then we can get back to the original question)

It's best to call the manufacturer, cause i think it depends on the manufacturer.

Fly it like you stole it!

[MrHixxx 0]

I have HMA on my Xaos. Precision recommends 600-800 jumps on the suspension lines and 300 on the lower control lines. My canopy has about 225 on it and virtually no wear.
A side note on HMA. It is UV sensitive. I have heard that 4 hours of direct sunlight can weaken the lines up to 60 percent. So, I keep mine out of the sun. But, I've always packed indoors or in the shade anyway...

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[bodypilot90 0]

figure $200 +/- for a spectre

[betzilla 56]

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as a sidenote, how much money does it cost to reline a canopy? I have never seen a figure for this. Thanks! (not trying to hijack the thread, all I need is one correct answer then we can get back to the original question)

At our loft, a 9 cell reline is $268, and a 7 cell reline is $248 -- Icarus or PD. We do mail order, and we're an Icarus factory service center.

[ZigZag 0]

I will omit Type III Nylon Cord and Flat Braided Dacron, as these lines no longer find much use for sports canopies. Also, I would like to focus on Technora(formerly known as HMA), Vectran and Spectra, the latter being the prime focus, as trim issues are more pronounced with Spectra.
Vectran and then later Technora, have solved some of the issues related to trim, as their superior resistance to heat generated by the friction of the slider grommets allows the lineset to stay within manufacturers specs throughout the lifetime of the lineset.

Of primary issue with these two types of line is wear, or at times the absence of some visual wear parameter, that would indicate the need for replacement. For me this is born out by observation of Vectran or Technora linesets from various jumpers that have let their lines go for a high number of jumps, to the point of extreme fuzzyness or even several broken fiber groups within the weave of the line.
It is imperative for the jumper to follow the manufacturers recommendation for replacement intervals, especially for the control or steering lines.

Control or steering lines, more precisely the lower brake to toggle lines, experience far more wear and tear due to friction from the guide ring on the riser, and from friction on the riser itself due to front riser input. The two different design philosophies, ie. "Cats Eye" vs. "Cascaded" deployment loops, is somewhat out of the scope of this post.
Suspension lines tend to remain static, but wear from the grommet of the slider needs to be considered, especially at the links. "Correctly" placed slider bumpers not only protect the grommets from impacting against S/S Rapide links, but also protect the loop ends of suspension lines.
Draw-string collapsible sliders offer further benefit by reducing flapping of the slider and hence friction from the grommets, apart from the added benefit of reduced drag. Sliders have considerable effect on suspension lines, or vice versa, as in the case of Vectran on brass grommets. Most sliders today feature stainless steel grommets. Vectran will "eat" its way through brass, whereas Technora and Spectra get along just fine with brass grommets.

Spectra line is to some extent the predominant choice of suspension line for most canopies. It has proven itself over the years and hence has known properties that the industry can rely on. Tongue in cheek; it could be argued that the shrinkage of Spectra can be relied upon.
Spectra will shrink when subjected to heat, and the slider on its way down will do just that, create friction and therefore heat. This friction is most pronounced on the outboard and steering lines.

All canopies are delivered within manufacturers trim, which in some cases could mean slightly out of trim, because some manufacturers take advantage of the known shrinkage properties of Spectra. The idea is to have the canopies' lines shrink themselves into the correct trim and then gradually out of trim again. I find some humor in that.

Trim is most often associated with the angle of attack, in other words the steepness or difference between the A to B, A to C, A to D lines, last but not least the control lines in their brake or full flight settings. These are cord-wise parameters, but the shrinkage of the outboard lines, in regards to Spectra, has made this a spanwise issue as well.
To further complicate things, manufacturers have figured out, that span-wise differences in suspension line lengths for given line groups can flatten the canopies frontal profile, improving performance. As a simple example compare a Sabre vs a Sabre II. The "A" lines on a Sabre are all the same length. So are the B's, C's and D's respectively. On a Sabre II the "A" lines have a slightly different configuration, most pronounced by a slightly longer suspension line inboard of the line to the stabilizer. B's, C's and D's on Sabre II's follow suit. This is a simplification of example, but most high performance canpoppies these days have adopted this approach, regardless of line type.

When packing a brand new canopy fitted with Sphincter lines, you will find slight differences within the lengths of the lines of any given line group. During subsequent jumps, your outboard and steering lines will shrink. This is a gradual and normal process, but at around 300 to 400 jumps the performance of your canopy will deteriorate. This deteriotation process will be very gradual, difficult to pinpoint and define, until ultimately your flare has gone to shit and your openings become less predictable. You may replace your steering lines and get a little more life out of your canopy, but ultimately openings start to worry you. Now you have the added benefit of trying to figure out if you should blame your P/C or bridle, rubber bands, body position, etc, etc. Remember what your lines looked like, in terms of trim, when your canopy was brand new? Are your outboard lines 4-6 inches shorter than your inboard lines? Replacing your line-set at this point will make your canopy fly almost like new! Good openings and a decent flare will most likely be the result. Consider.

[apoil 0]

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A side note on HMA. It is UV sensitive. I have heard that 4 hours of direct sunlight can weaken the lines up to 60 percent. So, I keep mine out of the sun. But, I've always packed indoors or in the shade anyway...

Please post things that you are sure of, and not what you have simply heard.
"up to 60%" is one of those marketing phrases that mean nothing. So this is just another misleading statistic, that may not even be appropriate to the HMA lines that are being used on parachutes.

HMA lines are suitable for parachute use. Extensive exposure to sunlight is bad for all of our gear. Pack quickly and in the shade whenever possible. Check your lines for wear.

[apoil 0]

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At our loft, a 9 cell reline is $268, and a 7 cell reline is $248 -- Icarus or PD. We do mail order, and we're an Icarus factory service center.

Do you charge significantly less for an HMA reline?
The ground zero canopies (and the Nitro and Blade from germany) have no cascades and thus involve considerably less labor to do a reline.
No bartacking, no fingertrapping, just swap out each line individually.

[MrHixxx 0]

If you have direct numbers then, I would like to have them. Otherwise, your assertion is just another marketing thing "I've heard". I consider everything I've heard when my life is hanging under it.

I still believe HMA is a good material, otherwise my canopy would be long gone. I think it is important to keep your ears open and recognize its possible limitations and consider those during use. Regardless of what a mfg tells you, it is still your ass on the line or under them...

Why don't you give us some useable information, like how many jumps you have on your Nitron and how your lineset is wearing?

-Hixxx

death,as men call him, ends what they call men
-but beauty is more now than dying’s when

[PhreeZone 20]

You still have to do 2 finger traps on each line and 2 bar tacks. In the end its about the same about of bat tacks since you have to do twice as many end's as you would need on a cascadded canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Watcher 0]

When you order the line set they would send you the lines with both ends fingertrapped for you already. So all you have to do is slip them on the canopy then put them on links and your done.

--

Jonathan Bartlett
D-24876
AFF-I