mazevedo 0 #1 May 6, 2003 I have bought my first rig (Dolphin - sabre 170 - tempo 170 reserve) and my rigger just told me to take off the stevens system because sometimes it causes early (reserve) deployment and the static line can stuck in your helmet. I am starting on freefly and problably I will be jumping with camera in the future. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #2 May 6, 2003 Quote Dolphin...........I am starting on freefly bad, bad idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #3 May 6, 2003 Quotebad, bad idea Based on what criteria? Your rigger rating and extensive knowledge of gear? Your vast experience with many type of rigs, made over your whopping 59 jumps? If it's really bad a idea, give him some reasons why! First, find out if it's an older Dolphin with snaps on the riser flaps and exposed bridle, or one of the newer ones with tuck tabs, and much better pin and bridle protection. I hate it when people diss a rig like this with no facts to back it up! The newer Dolphins are at least as freefly friendly as a lot of the older Mirages and Javelins that people are doing FF with... "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #4 May 6, 2003 Quote Quote Dolphin...........I am starting on freefly bad, bad idea Oh BS. There's nothing wrong with starting FF in a Dolphin. Mazevedo: Have your rigger check over the rig to make sure that it's safe for FF. If it isn't safe for FF then have your rigger make it that way. A good friend of mine did FF in a well maintained Dolphin for over a year. Another friend of mine had two incidents in one day in a poorly maintained Dolphin. See where this is going? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #5 May 6, 2003 What bwilling says. If it's a newer model and the Velcro is in good condition go right ahead. As for the RSL, it's BS too. I have a dolphin and FF all the time with the RSL always connected. It's unbelievable the amount of BS people say about dolphins. Do you know the guy who designed it?Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floormonkey 0 #6 May 6, 2003 We just sent in a Dolphin to have it modified. It now has riser and bridle protection to rival a Javelin (and it's my FF teammate's rig). You can also have the RSL routed on the other side (like most other rigs). PM me and I'll get you in touch with the guy who had it done....He had it done thru Altico, it was fairly cheap and his rig was back within 7 days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #7 May 6, 2003 The biggest downside is that the freebags are black...good luck finding that! --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #8 May 6, 2003 i say it based on the fact that velcro degrades gradually over time (you infact said so yourself in the "to velcro or not to velcro?" thread) so every time it gets peeled it is less and less effective. not to mention that shifting can cause velcro to unseat itself while not being easily detectable. whereas a tucktab either works or it doesn't Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #9 May 6, 2003 Get all the facts. Read here: http://www.jumpshack.com/default.asp?CategoryID=TECH&PageID=velcro_is_obsolete&SortBy=TITLE_AMemento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #10 May 6, 2003 Quotewhereas a tucktab either works or it doesn't You think so? Tuck tabs lose their ridgidity over time just like velcro loses it's velcro-ness over time. The Dolphin, like any other rig on the market, needs to be taken care of. When the Dolphin is well maintained it is a perfectly suitable rig for free flying. When any rig is poorly maintained it is a poor choice for skydiving in general and particularly free flying. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #11 May 6, 2003 Quotei say it based on the fact that velcro degrades gradually over time (you infact said so yourself in the "to velcro or not to velcro?" thread) so every time it gets peeled it is less and less effective. That's true, but it doesn't mean that velcro won't work when used on a harness & container, it just means that it requires regular maintenance to remain effective... but so does the spandex BOC pouch, which is used on the majority of rigs in use today... both require regular maintenance to remain effective... Think about your cutaway handle... what holds it to your rig? Velcro. Would they use velcro if it wouldn't hold (subject to almost direct wind blast in belly to earth, and substantial blast in a head down positions)? No. They use it because it works. You don't hear of too many premature releases of a cutaway handle tho, because the velcro almost never wears out, because the handle is used infrequently... and if you keep the rest of your velcro (and spandex pouches) maintained, they will function properly also... I'm not defending the Dolphin as the most FF friendly H&C built these days, they're not... and every year, H&C mfg's release new designs, that offer better and better riser, pin, and bridle protection, in response to the increased demands that FF puts on gear... But you made a blanket statement that FF'ing a Dolphin was a "bad, bad idea", and that's not necessarily true... a newer, properly maintained Dolphin, is certainly as FF safe as some of the 'older' gear that I've seen people FF with, and should be fine for a beginning FF'er to learn on... "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #12 May 6, 2003 This is not really related but where does the name stevens come from ? Is he / she the inventor of the RSL-system ? What else has he / she done ? Is he/she still jumping ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 May 6, 2003 To address your initial question about removing your Stevens system (better known as RSL), what your rigger stated is a hotly contested opinion. If you want to read the up and down sides of using an RSL, do a search on RSL. Also, check the articles on the main page. Bill V recently wrote an article detailing the specifics of an RSL (biased towards his favorable opinion of them). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #14 May 6, 2003 your right i shouldnt have been so general in my statement. obviously a meticulously maintained rig with velcro is going to be safer then one with tuck tabs that gets beat to hell and neglected frequently. Quote but so does the spandex BOC pouch, which is used on the majority of rigs in use today which is exactly why i got pullout! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #15 May 6, 2003 The Steven's system (Steven's line) was the RSL for gut-gear. It attached with a couple of strong snaps directly to the reserve ripcord handle, instead of pulling on the ripcord cable and releasing automatically when the ripcord was pulled out. It had a cross connector to be sure both risers were cutaway. I always secretly disconnected it without my jumpmaster knowing. The thought of that big ripcord whacking me in the face or being yanked out of my hand wasn't appealing.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #16 May 6, 2003 QuoteThe Steven's system (Steven's line) was the RSL for gut-gear. It attached with a couple of strong snaps directly to the reserve ripcord handle, instead of pulling on the ripcord cable and releasing automatically when the ripcord was pulled out. It had a cross connector to be sure both risers were cutaway. Interesting. I always thought Steven's Lanyard and RSL were interchangeable terms for the same device. The guy asking the question is from Brazil, though. It may be that what we refer to as RSL is called a Steven's system down there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mazevedo 0 #17 May 7, 2003 Thank you guys for the comments! It will be very helpfull. My rig (the old Dolphin - 1996) is very well maintained and the velcros are in excellent conditions and I will take care to keep that way. I thought RSL and Steven´s Lanyard were the same thing, too. Let me know if I understood. My rig is not recommended for FF but its new (few jumps), so I can use it if I keep the velcros in good conditions, but it is better to have the RSL disconected to prevent any problem (and I will read the articles about it to discuss with my rigger). Thanks again and blue skies! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor 0 #18 May 7, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe Steven's system (Steven's line) was the RSL for gut-gear. It attached with a couple of strong snaps directly to the reserve ripcord handle, instead of pulling on the ripcord cable and releasing automatically when the ripcord was pulled out. It had a cross connector to be sure both risers were cutaway. Interesting. I always thought Steven's Lanyard and RSL were interchangeable terms for the same device. The guy asking the question is from Brazil, though. It may be that what we refer to as RSL is called a Steven's system down there. I thought the steven's lanyard was the cross connector. I think vectors still have one. I wasn't aware that there was a whole steven's system. I wish someone who actually knew would comment on this. Blues Ted Like a giddy school girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #19 May 7, 2003 Quote The biggest downside is that the freebags are black...good luck finding that! So are the new G4 Mirage bags...but it's not a huge drawback for either rig.ChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #20 May 7, 2003 The Stevens Cutaway System was either named for or invented by Perry Stevens (of course, if I invented it I'd name it after myself...) It was applicable to gutter gear, but it really was just an RSL. It included a cross-connector between the main risers at connector link height, and a 3' lanyard looped around one riser and routed to the reserve handle. Normally it was snapped and half-hitched around the reserve handle, and the surplus lanyard folded under one of the bungees on the reserve. The reason a cross-connector was particularly important was because when it was invented there were only Capewells of one type or another, and the chance of an uneven cutaway was significantly higher than with a 3-ring. The lanyard would pull the handle on the reserve after both risers were successfully cut away. If only one riser was cut away, the cross-connector would keep the (almost certainly round) canopy in whatever condition it was before. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #21 May 8, 2003 QuoteThe Stevens Cutaway System was either named for or invented by Perry Stevens (of course, if I invented it I'd name it after myself...) It was applicable to gutter gear, but it really was just an RSL. It included a cross-connector between the main risers at connector link height, and a 3' lanyard looped around one riser and routed to the reserve handle. Normally it was snapped and half-hitched around the reserve handle, and the surplus lanyard folded under one of the bungees on the reserve. The reason a cross-connector was particularly important was because when it was invented there were only Capewells of one type or another, and the chance of an uneven cutaway was significantly higher than with a 3-ring. The lanyard would pull the handle on the reserve after both risers were successfully cut away. If only one riser was cut away, the cross-connector would keep the (almost certainly round) canopy in whatever condition it was before. Wendy W. Wendy sounds like maybe she has jumped a "Stevens". The lanyard was made of 1" tubular. And yes the handle will hit you in the face. MichaelMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Professor 0 #22 May 8, 2003 Cool, thanks. Actually, I was thinking of a Collins lanyard, the thing that cuts away your non-RSL attached riser on a Vector (and probably some other stuff. Thanks. Ted Like a giddy school girl. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #23 May 8, 2003 my rigger just told me to take off the stevens system because sometimes it causes early (reserve) deployment and the static line can stuck in your helmet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who started this silly rumor? I have only repacked a few Dolphins, but their RSLs were similar to RSLs on other popular rigs and reports of sport RSLs snagging/deploying prematurely are rare. Cameramen and CReW jumpers are the only people who have decent excuses for removing RSLs. And if cameramen bought modern helmets and wrapped enough gaffers tape around snag points, they would not have to worry about RSLs snagging either. The bottom line is that every year USPA publishes two or three fatality reports of people who cutaway from malfunctioned mains, then hesitated before pulling their reserve ripcords. Two or three people per year hesitate for the rest of their lives. Two or three people per year would still be alive if the left their RSLs connected. In conclusion, I believe that the primary reason for dis-connecting RSLs is unrealistic self-confidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,452 #24 May 8, 2003 Quote Wendy sounds like maybe she has jumped a "Stevens". Oh Nooooooo! I'm not nearly old enough -- I saw it in an ancient history book. Yeah, that's the ticket Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #25 May 8, 2003 Quote Oh Nooooooo! I'm not nearly old enough -- I saw it in an ancient history book. Yeah, that's the ticket Wendy W. Liar, liar, pants on fire! LOL, like I should talk! Look what I'm doing in this old pic, stowing the excess on the Stevens System! God, I'm old! "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
