Ron 10 #26 May 13, 2003 QuoteYou're obviously pretty selective with your quotes here. Why didn't you quote the part where I said my home DZ tends to ground ALL jumpers when the winds get squirrelly? No, I agree with what your DZ does. My response was to the "My wingload thing" Why quote what I have no issue with??? My point is that a high wingload does not make turbulance less of an issue...Where do you not read that? QuoteInstead you choose to pick on my wing loading. Dude don't judge a book which you've never seen. I do quite well with my current canopy (which I don't plan on replacing anytime soon) and I do it here in CO where the density altitude is high Now exactly where did I say anything about your wingload other than it will not make turbulance any safer? I never said ANYHTING about your skills/canopy choice/density altitude, or anything about your wingload in relation to your jump #'s... You jumped the gun on this one. I ONLY SAID...A high wingload does not make you safe in relation to turbulance where did I say shit else? Read before you automaticly think I am slamming your wingload/exp."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #27 May 13, 2003 Boys... settle down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #28 May 13, 2003 I would like to get back onto to topic of this thread. As a Sabre2 owner, I'm naturally concerned when a thread like this pops up. If there truly is an issue with the canopy (which I doubt there is), I'd like to know about it. I'm under the impression that all canopies are susceptible to the dangers of turbulence (even the air locked ones). It's just that some may be better at handling it than others and I obviously don't have a lengthy track record of personal experience of using many different canopy types. I've been told by a very well respected instructor at my DZ (who's got over 5600 jumps) that the Sabre2 was an excellent canopy for someone like myself to learn on. Plus another instructor who was talking to myself on Sunday about my canopy progression, voiced his opinion that he thought the Sabre2 was an excellent canopy. So if anyone out there has some real evidence that the Sabre2 has stability problems, I'd like to know what they are. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #29 May 13, 2003 The Sabre 2 is a fine canopy.... ANY canopy can go down in turbulance. The first accident was someone I knew and liked. No one I know of SAW him hit. People said they saw him toggle turn low...This was the first time I had read/heard of a collapse of any kind. But if I am wrong please tell me...It just sounds like a low pull with a bad choice to land and a turn to avoid an object. He was not a hotshot. The second accident that the original poster talked about... Well I was there,saw it and the second on the scene. 1. The winds were on the higher side (All students were grounded). 2. The area he went in at has high trees...High trees + high winds = turbulance. 3. I personally think it was a combination of input/turbulance. But I only saw the last 150 feet. ANY canopy can get hit by turbulance....Almost any canopy can be spun up with the toggles.... There are some people that have been complaning about the openings, but thats all I have heard. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #30 May 13, 2003 Peace guys, I thought this discussion was about Sbre2s and their stability, not a seminar on downsizing or flying through turbulence, both have been discussed very recently. To get back on track I don't think that 2 reported incidents of bad landings can be attributed to the canopy, its not as if its a Nova.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #31 May 13, 2003 Well, I need to apologize for jumping the gun, I'm sorry about that. Been pretty stressed lately, and it just sort of manifested its self here. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #32 May 13, 2003 No prob...And to be honest, I could have not jumped back. We are on the same page...even talking the same thing. No worries Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #33 May 13, 2003 Peace dudes. This is the first I have heard about Sabre 2s collapsing in turbulence. Other posters were correct in stating that all canopies are affected by turbulence - to varying degrees. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same reason why tandems fair better in adverse winds then sport canopies (with in reason). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hah! I have been slammed dozens of times while doing tandems in the California desert. When the winds pick up in mid afternoon and dust devils start tearing through the bowl, even tandems get slammed. It is great fun having your top skin go slack at 200 feet! Hee! Hee! Several of my fellow tandem masters were forced to retire - by spinal, hip, knee and ankle - injuries that were the result of doing tandems in California desert turbulence. Hint, when the grey-bearded tandem instructors are sitting it out, maybe you should too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 May 13, 2003 Quote When the winds pick up in mid afternoon and dust devils start tearing through the bowl, even tandems get slammed I don't think that fits my "with in reason" requirement...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #35 May 13, 2003 Click Here go check out the Sabre2 thread for more insight from sky divers who do have experience with this canopy.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrumpySmurf 0 #36 May 13, 2003 Aye, We are flying non-rigid gliders - introduce unsettled airflow and our non-rigid glider simply becomes a non-rigid collection of fabric. That being said, I've put in close to 250 jumps on the S2 (190, 170 and 150) - jumped in winds I should not have and landed fine. I don't attribute it to the design or lack there of - simply luck manged to overcome poor judgement on my part. I think it's a great canopy and will continue to hold onto it for camera work, but I don't think it or any other canopy I may buy will make up for my decision to jump in less than ideal wind conditions. *shrug* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
