LDiCosimo 0 #76 November 11, 2011 QuoteQuote Number of jumpers killed by GoPros and Contours combined: ZERO! Number of AAD activations due to low/no pulls: Enough to prove their worth! Number of AAD activations due to presence of GoPro or Contour without low/no pull: ZERO! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3894693;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=82160489 Read through this please. The point is, it's not the size of the camera that is a concern, rather the distraction/varables whatever one wants to call it. The two out incident we see here basically disproves your argument. The jumper flipped over and filmed the others opening then went way low. I don't buy that "learning to backfly" excuse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MariusM 0 #77 November 11, 2011 Quote USPA recommendation not a rule! If there were people with 100 jumps with massive commercial set-ups on their heads then I'd see the point, as it seems most people do. That's not the problem. The problem is that the experienced jumpers have taken a recommendation and turned it into a rule to harass and harangue newer jumpers over to prevent them from using small format cameras, even though there's no definitive evidence that it's unsafe. Should there be some law to forbid the use small format cameras on motorcycles, mountain bikes, snowskis, zip lines, and wind tunnels? Why is it that it's the small format camera that suddenly makes skydiving dangerous? You, sir, are good in trolling on Internet forums. Almost as good as S..., Sa..., San... Well, as One Who Must Not Be Named. Have strong opinions on everything, starting from cases against Cypress and finishing with GoPro on lowbies helemt. I salute you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d100965 0 #78 November 11, 2011 ahh, it's turned into another debate on the use of cameras by newbies..... Can we get back to flaming the guy in the video for being such a dick. The camera is most certainly a factor in this whole event, but I think that the biggest problem was more to do with the guy himself. The argument this presents is really more a case of "is skydiving really for him?" and "how should he be punished?" We all fuck up, but how much do you have to get wrong before you question whether or not you really should be Skydiving at all. A telling off for that entire cluster fuck really isn't enough. Some long time away from the sport to really reflect and understand ones actions would be most warranted. Despite a stern telling off and being spoken to by his instructors, this guy is probably straight back up in the air with his camera and his awesome skills. [Sarcasm on] Oh, he's very sorry, he's promised that he'll ensure the camera won't distract him again. And he's now got an audible so he won't be low again. [Sarcasm off] In the old days before political correctness and worrying about peoples feelings, his actions would have warranted some severe reprisals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites manseman 0 #79 November 11, 2011 Quote Lessons learned: pull higher, be more altitude aware, and get an audible... Another reflection: Did you understand how low you were when you finally deployed and why didn't you deploy your reserve instead of your main? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #80 November 11, 2011 QuoteQuote Lessons learned: pull higher, be more altitude aware, and get an audible... Another reflection: Did you understand how low you were when you finally deployed and why didn't you deploy your reserve instead of your main? THAT is the question. I believe he 'knew' how low because the video shows an altimeter check, probably didn't 'understand' how low because of the standard pulling of the main. There are quite possibly quite a few things this jumper doesn't understand clearly. With just a fraction of a second more delay and he would have had both canopies fighting for clean air over his head, that often doesn't turn out well. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #81 November 11, 2011 QuoteDenis has had a talking to by instructors and senior jumpers at the ranch and I'm sure will learn from this It seems not as he continues to downplay the role of the camera, and intends to keep jumping it. Which brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch permits the use of cameras for jumpers with less than 200 jumps? I know it's not a BSR, but it's a reccomendation, and for the USPA to get off it's ass and do anything means it has some merit (and probably should have been done a year ago). Which brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch, in the wake of this incident with this jumper, will continue to allow him to jump a camera with under 200 jumps? I've already chimed in with the mistakes made by the jumper in question, so now I'll add the Ranch to the party. Allowing a jumper with less than 200 jumps to jump a camera is a risk, and this case proves that. Beyond that, to not end the 'debrief' of this jump with the words, 'You're not jumping a camera at this DZ until you have over 200 jumps', is beyond stupid. The only 'argument' against the 200 jump min for jumping cameras is that some jumpers are ready before then, and while that may be true (with the catch being that there's no way to know beforehand), this jumper has proven to not be one of the 'chosen few' who can deal with a camera before 200 jumps, and should not be allowed to continue jumping one. Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sacex250 0 #82 November 11, 2011 QuoteWhich brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch permits the use of cameras for jumpers with less than 200 jumps? I know it's not a BSR, but it's a reccomendation, and for the USPA to get off it's ass and do anything means it has some merit (and probably should have been done a year ago). Dave, the USPA recommendation is not 200 jumps. The recommendation is for the jumper to have a C-License, granted, the minimum number of jumps for a C-License is 200, but it's still two distinctly separate standards. Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump..It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites manseman 0 #83 November 11, 2011 Quote Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. What? If the recommendation is a C-license and one of the C-license requirements is having made 200 jumps it's quite amazing how you can conclude that the recommendation doesn't have anything to do with jump numbers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites davelepka 4 #84 November 11, 2011 QuoteA C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. That might be so, and your argument isn't going to help the idea that people think you're a lawyer. However, the C license is both a demonstrated level of competence AND experience. I'll let the SIM do the talking here - C License 3. Persons holding a USPA C license are able to exercise all privileges of a B-license holder, are eligible for the USPA Instructor rating (except USPA Tandem Instructor), participate in certain demonstration jumps, may ride as passenger on USPA Tandem Instructor training and rating renewal jumps, and must have-- a. met all current requirements for or hold a USPA B license b. completed 200 jumps, including accumulating at least 60 minutes of controlled freefall time c. landed within two meters of target center on 25 jumps d. aerial performance requirements, either: (1) during freefall, perform in sequence within 18 seconds-a backloop, front loop, left 360-degree turn, right 360-degree turn, right barrel roll and left barrel roll (2) completed at least two points on an 8-way or larger random skydive e. passed a written exam conducted by a current USPA I/E, S&TA, or USPA Board member. - I'll direct the courts attention to item 'b' on the list, and it clearly states that a jumper must have completed 200 jumps totaling not less than 60 mintues of freefall time to qualify for a C license. No 200 jumps means no licesnse, which means a jumper with less than 200 jumps is below the reccomended number of jumps the USPA put forth for jumping cameras. You said it yourself, the reccomendation is to have a C license, not to have skills equivilant to a C license. You suggested that I overstated the reccomendation by calling it 200 jumps, and not the C license, when in actuality I understated it by only calling it 200 jumps. The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #85 November 11, 2011 Quote ahh, it's turned into another debate on the use of cameras by newbies..... Can we get back to flaming the guy in the video for being such a dick. it all turns into a shit-discussion and flame-fest, took quite a while in this case.. hey, it's dorkzone after all.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d100965 0 #86 November 11, 2011 Ah VB, as I was saying there was a time before political correctness and having to worry about people's feelings. So with that in mind I will add that it's nice we are flaming someone else this time instead of you. 200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #87 November 11, 2011 Quote Ah VB, as I was saying there was a time before political correctness and having to worry about people's feelings. So with that in mind I will add that it's nice we are flaming someone else this time instead of you. thanks, and it just happens to be my sort of feelings on the subject, too! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #88 November 11, 2011 Quote Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Sounds like you haven't been to the Ranch before. Unless they've changed, there are no rules at the Ranch (but quite a bit of positive "peer pressure" when adequate).Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sacex250 0 #89 November 11, 2011 QuoteQuote Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. What? If the recommendation is a C-license and one of the C-license requirements is having made 200 jumps it's quite amazing how you can conclude that the recommendation doesn't have anything to do with jump numbers. Would it make sense to you if I said that the USPA recommendation for jumping with a camera was 60 minutes of freefall time? Having two hundred jumps is not the same thing as having a C-License.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinciflies 0 #90 November 11, 2011 Quote Having two hundred jumps is not the same thing as having a C-License. But having 200 jumps is the lesser of the two, so by implication the USPA recommends at least 200 jumps to jump with a camera. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites manseman 0 #91 November 11, 2011 Quote Would it make sense to you if I said that the USPA recommendation for jumping with a camera was 60 minutes of freefall time? It sure would make a whole lot more sense than suggesting that freefall time and jump numbers don't have anything to do with the experience needed to jump with a camera. I don't really understand what, if any, point you are trying to make but try applying some common sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #92 November 11, 2011 QuoteWouldn't the presence of a camera, by your logic, cause a student to be more susceptible to a low pull because he's showing off for the camera? That actually can and does happen. Nice argument FAIL, genius. As others have already alluded, you are showing your own inexperience, and clearly - NOT knowing, what you do not even know. A good, conscientious outside camera-flyer professional will recognize when a FJC student is becoming either fixated or distracted by the camera being there, and will REMOVE it (i.e. himself/herself) from the situation tout-suite. A good, conscientious professional AFFI will recognize this, and quickly rotate the student AWAY from the camera (and yes, "sacrifice" the video in trade-off for the students SAFETY FIRST) if necessary. I've in my experience, seen BOTH of these instances/examples, actually happen. So now then, what more have you got, other than your totally specious, unfounded, completely empty (and inaccurate in their entirety) arguments? You would be well served instead of just spouting for the sake of hearing yourself spout, or insert yourself into subject matter you CLEARLY don't understand... instead maybe (really, truly) to STOP, THINK, LISTEN ...and CONSIDER Your assertions and presumptions in this matter, as evidenced by your clearly incorrect (based) rebuttul(s) - other than for purpose of you maybe trying to be (apparently) inflammatory - are absolutely wrong. FWIWcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mpohl 1 #93 November 11, 2011 This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that. [YOUTUBE.COM] Smart move, kid! Who needs these armchairs quarterbacks on dorkzone.com anyways. They'll stretch a 0.5s decision, into a 30-day discussion. 'Cause they got nothing better to do!!!! QuoteAnyone want to critique this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites virgin-burner 1 #94 November 11, 2011 life turned qute back on ye' in the last couple of weeks, didnt it!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Trae 1 #95 November 11, 2011 inreply to "200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted " .................................................. These are people that jump the gun and don't go back for the restart. They win in their own little race. They got 'oppositional defiance disorder' . It usually ends in tears don't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sacex250 0 #96 November 11, 2011 Quote The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). The truth is that having two hundred jumps, in and of itself, does not meet the recommendation for jumping with a camera. The problem is that the recommendation is so universally misquoted on this forum that I'm sure there are numerous people who think that the recommendation is actually just 200 jumps. We already know there's a lot of people who are clearly confused between a requirement and a recommendation. The recommendation in the SIM clearly states "C-License". To "infer" that what the USPA really meant was 200 jumps is just as inaccurate as saying that the minimum recommendation is having landed within two meters of target on 25 jumps.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #97 November 12, 2011 Quote Quote The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). The truth is that having two hundred jumps, in and of itself, does not meet the recommendation for jumping with a camera. The problem is that the recommendation is so universally misquoted on this forum that I'm sure there are numerous people who think that the recommedation is actually just 200 jumps. We already know there's a lot of people who are clearly confused between a requirement and a recommendation. The recommendation in the SIM clearly states "C-License". To "infer" that what the USPA really meant was 200 jumps is just as inaccurate as saying that landing within two meters of target on 25 jumps is the minimum requirement. Wooosshh ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites david3 0 #98 November 12, 2011 Quote So then, why is it that students are allowed to hire camera jumpers from their very first jump? Wouldn't the presence of a camera, by your logic, cause a student to be more susceptible to a low pull because he's showing off for the camera? I very much doubt that's the case. It's probably the opposite way around, a student would be so consumed by trying to get the jump right that the student would forget all about that ContourHD stuck to his head. Is there a potential threshold at which the value of a small format camera might outweigh the risks, in your eyes? What about a ContourGPS? It's got to be difficult to argue against having a graphical flight path displayed on GoogleMaps inset on a video of the jump. Flight Recorder The problem is that jumpers can't seem to plan a jump and jump the plan. Is it really that hard to do a proper skydive? Or, is this a territorial dispute because of professional video jumpers who are going to lose money because they've been largely replaced by technology? Is the C-License requirement just a moritoreum to keep camera jumpers employed by restricting jumpers from grabbing their own videos? It just seems to me that there's more to this than just the safety issue. I salute you on this excellent troll. No matter how dumb it is you have managed to suck people right in. I think when people take a second look at your post they will realize you couldn’t possibly mean the things you have written. Well done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #99 November 12, 2011 What you don't know... is that a LOT of vidiots and the people in front of the camera....trying to get cool video... are now dead. Some of them were my friends. What you do not know in this sport... can indeed be lethal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites danielcroft 2 #100 November 12, 2011 Quote Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Just because he says he's going to keep jumping the camera doesn't mean he is. IMO, if I'd taken a low pull down to AAD firing I'd ground myself for a while and really work out what happened before jumping again. I can imagine it happening but damn, I'd have had to have really fucked up to get there. Quote 200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted d100965 - win Hasn't anyone learned? When someone posts a video like this, download a copy because it's sure to be taken down quick smart after they feel the heat. Yes, I did. I'm not trying to burn Denis and as I said, I wasn't there when this happend but I know who spoke with him and I know they're not the types to fuck around or mince words. I have faith in both of those people, trust them and respect them. I'm heading up this weekend, I'll see what the deal is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 4 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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MariusM 0 #77 November 11, 2011 Quote USPA recommendation not a rule! If there were people with 100 jumps with massive commercial set-ups on their heads then I'd see the point, as it seems most people do. That's not the problem. The problem is that the experienced jumpers have taken a recommendation and turned it into a rule to harass and harangue newer jumpers over to prevent them from using small format cameras, even though there's no definitive evidence that it's unsafe. Should there be some law to forbid the use small format cameras on motorcycles, mountain bikes, snowskis, zip lines, and wind tunnels? Why is it that it's the small format camera that suddenly makes skydiving dangerous? You, sir, are good in trolling on Internet forums. Almost as good as S..., Sa..., San... Well, as One Who Must Not Be Named. Have strong opinions on everything, starting from cases against Cypress and finishing with GoPro on lowbies helemt. I salute you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d100965 0 #78 November 11, 2011 ahh, it's turned into another debate on the use of cameras by newbies..... Can we get back to flaming the guy in the video for being such a dick. The camera is most certainly a factor in this whole event, but I think that the biggest problem was more to do with the guy himself. The argument this presents is really more a case of "is skydiving really for him?" and "how should he be punished?" We all fuck up, but how much do you have to get wrong before you question whether or not you really should be Skydiving at all. A telling off for that entire cluster fuck really isn't enough. Some long time away from the sport to really reflect and understand ones actions would be most warranted. Despite a stern telling off and being spoken to by his instructors, this guy is probably straight back up in the air with his camera and his awesome skills. [Sarcasm on] Oh, he's very sorry, he's promised that he'll ensure the camera won't distract him again. And he's now got an audible so he won't be low again. [Sarcasm off] In the old days before political correctness and worrying about peoples feelings, his actions would have warranted some severe reprisals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manseman 0 #79 November 11, 2011 Quote Lessons learned: pull higher, be more altitude aware, and get an audible... Another reflection: Did you understand how low you were when you finally deployed and why didn't you deploy your reserve instead of your main? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #80 November 11, 2011 QuoteQuote Lessons learned: pull higher, be more altitude aware, and get an audible... Another reflection: Did you understand how low you were when you finally deployed and why didn't you deploy your reserve instead of your main? THAT is the question. I believe he 'knew' how low because the video shows an altimeter check, probably didn't 'understand' how low because of the standard pulling of the main. There are quite possibly quite a few things this jumper doesn't understand clearly. With just a fraction of a second more delay and he would have had both canopies fighting for clean air over his head, that often doesn't turn out well. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #81 November 11, 2011 QuoteDenis has had a talking to by instructors and senior jumpers at the ranch and I'm sure will learn from this It seems not as he continues to downplay the role of the camera, and intends to keep jumping it. Which brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch permits the use of cameras for jumpers with less than 200 jumps? I know it's not a BSR, but it's a reccomendation, and for the USPA to get off it's ass and do anything means it has some merit (and probably should have been done a year ago). Which brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch, in the wake of this incident with this jumper, will continue to allow him to jump a camera with under 200 jumps? I've already chimed in with the mistakes made by the jumper in question, so now I'll add the Ranch to the party. Allowing a jumper with less than 200 jumps to jump a camera is a risk, and this case proves that. Beyond that, to not end the 'debrief' of this jump with the words, 'You're not jumping a camera at this DZ until you have over 200 jumps', is beyond stupid. The only 'argument' against the 200 jump min for jumping cameras is that some jumpers are ready before then, and while that may be true (with the catch being that there's no way to know beforehand), this jumper has proven to not be one of the 'chosen few' who can deal with a camera before 200 jumps, and should not be allowed to continue jumping one. Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #82 November 11, 2011 QuoteWhich brings me to my next point, am I to understand that the Ranch permits the use of cameras for jumpers with less than 200 jumps? I know it's not a BSR, but it's a reccomendation, and for the USPA to get off it's ass and do anything means it has some merit (and probably should have been done a year ago). Dave, the USPA recommendation is not 200 jumps. The recommendation is for the jumper to have a C-License, granted, the minimum number of jumps for a C-License is 200, but it's still two distinctly separate standards. Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump..It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manseman 0 #83 November 11, 2011 Quote Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. What? If the recommendation is a C-license and one of the C-license requirements is having made 200 jumps it's quite amazing how you can conclude that the recommendation doesn't have anything to do with jump numbers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #84 November 11, 2011 QuoteA C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. That might be so, and your argument isn't going to help the idea that people think you're a lawyer. However, the C license is both a demonstrated level of competence AND experience. I'll let the SIM do the talking here - C License 3. Persons holding a USPA C license are able to exercise all privileges of a B-license holder, are eligible for the USPA Instructor rating (except USPA Tandem Instructor), participate in certain demonstration jumps, may ride as passenger on USPA Tandem Instructor training and rating renewal jumps, and must have-- a. met all current requirements for or hold a USPA B license b. completed 200 jumps, including accumulating at least 60 minutes of controlled freefall time c. landed within two meters of target center on 25 jumps d. aerial performance requirements, either: (1) during freefall, perform in sequence within 18 seconds-a backloop, front loop, left 360-degree turn, right 360-degree turn, right barrel roll and left barrel roll (2) completed at least two points on an 8-way or larger random skydive e. passed a written exam conducted by a current USPA I/E, S&TA, or USPA Board member. - I'll direct the courts attention to item 'b' on the list, and it clearly states that a jumper must have completed 200 jumps totaling not less than 60 mintues of freefall time to qualify for a C license. No 200 jumps means no licesnse, which means a jumper with less than 200 jumps is below the reccomended number of jumps the USPA put forth for jumping cameras. You said it yourself, the reccomendation is to have a C license, not to have skills equivilant to a C license. You suggested that I overstated the reccomendation by calling it 200 jumps, and not the C license, when in actuality I understated it by only calling it 200 jumps. The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #85 November 11, 2011 Quote ahh, it's turned into another debate on the use of cameras by newbies..... Can we get back to flaming the guy in the video for being such a dick. it all turns into a shit-discussion and flame-fest, took quite a while in this case.. hey, it's dorkzone after all.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d100965 0 #86 November 11, 2011 Ah VB, as I was saying there was a time before political correctness and having to worry about people's feelings. So with that in mind I will add that it's nice we are flaming someone else this time instead of you. 200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #87 November 11, 2011 Quote Ah VB, as I was saying there was a time before political correctness and having to worry about people's feelings. So with that in mind I will add that it's nice we are flaming someone else this time instead of you. thanks, and it just happens to be my sort of feelings on the subject, too! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #88 November 11, 2011 Quote Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Sounds like you haven't been to the Ranch before. Unless they've changed, there are no rules at the Ranch (but quite a bit of positive "peer pressure" when adequate).Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #89 November 11, 2011 QuoteQuote Why does it matter? A C-License is not automatically issued for having 200 jumps. A C-License is a specific level of demonstrated competence and it's not unreasonable to expect that many jumpers achieve it prior to their 200th jump.. What? If the recommendation is a C-license and one of the C-license requirements is having made 200 jumps it's quite amazing how you can conclude that the recommendation doesn't have anything to do with jump numbers. Would it make sense to you if I said that the USPA recommendation for jumping with a camera was 60 minutes of freefall time? Having two hundred jumps is not the same thing as having a C-License.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #90 November 11, 2011 Quote Having two hundred jumps is not the same thing as having a C-License. But having 200 jumps is the lesser of the two, so by implication the USPA recommends at least 200 jumps to jump with a camera. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manseman 0 #91 November 11, 2011 Quote Would it make sense to you if I said that the USPA recommendation for jumping with a camera was 60 minutes of freefall time? It sure would make a whole lot more sense than suggesting that freefall time and jump numbers don't have anything to do with the experience needed to jump with a camera. I don't really understand what, if any, point you are trying to make but try applying some common sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #92 November 11, 2011 QuoteWouldn't the presence of a camera, by your logic, cause a student to be more susceptible to a low pull because he's showing off for the camera? That actually can and does happen. Nice argument FAIL, genius. As others have already alluded, you are showing your own inexperience, and clearly - NOT knowing, what you do not even know. A good, conscientious outside camera-flyer professional will recognize when a FJC student is becoming either fixated or distracted by the camera being there, and will REMOVE it (i.e. himself/herself) from the situation tout-suite. A good, conscientious professional AFFI will recognize this, and quickly rotate the student AWAY from the camera (and yes, "sacrifice" the video in trade-off for the students SAFETY FIRST) if necessary. I've in my experience, seen BOTH of these instances/examples, actually happen. So now then, what more have you got, other than your totally specious, unfounded, completely empty (and inaccurate in their entirety) arguments? You would be well served instead of just spouting for the sake of hearing yourself spout, or insert yourself into subject matter you CLEARLY don't understand... instead maybe (really, truly) to STOP, THINK, LISTEN ...and CONSIDER Your assertions and presumptions in this matter, as evidenced by your clearly incorrect (based) rebuttul(s) - other than for purpose of you maybe trying to be (apparently) inflammatory - are absolutely wrong. FWIWcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #93 November 11, 2011 This video has been removed by the user. Sorry about that. [YOUTUBE.COM] Smart move, kid! Who needs these armchairs quarterbacks on dorkzone.com anyways. They'll stretch a 0.5s decision, into a 30-day discussion. 'Cause they got nothing better to do!!!! QuoteAnyone want to critique this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #94 November 11, 2011 life turned qute back on ye' in the last couple of weeks, didnt it!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #95 November 11, 2011 inreply to "200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted " .................................................. These are people that jump the gun and don't go back for the restart. They win in their own little race. They got 'oppositional defiance disorder' . It usually ends in tears don't it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sacex250 0 #96 November 11, 2011 Quote The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). The truth is that having two hundred jumps, in and of itself, does not meet the recommendation for jumping with a camera. The problem is that the recommendation is so universally misquoted on this forum that I'm sure there are numerous people who think that the recommendation is actually just 200 jumps. We already know there's a lot of people who are clearly confused between a requirement and a recommendation. The recommendation in the SIM clearly states "C-License". To "infer" that what the USPA really meant was 200 jumps is just as inaccurate as saying that the minimum recommendation is having landed within two meters of target on 25 jumps.It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #97 November 12, 2011 Quote Quote The truth, it seems, is that you need 200 AND the C license to meet the USPA requirement (with the 200 jumps just being there due to it's requirement for earning a C license). The truth is that having two hundred jumps, in and of itself, does not meet the recommendation for jumping with a camera. The problem is that the recommendation is so universally misquoted on this forum that I'm sure there are numerous people who think that the recommedation is actually just 200 jumps. We already know there's a lot of people who are clearly confused between a requirement and a recommendation. The recommendation in the SIM clearly states "C-License". To "infer" that what the USPA really meant was 200 jumps is just as inaccurate as saying that landing within two meters of target on 25 jumps is the minimum requirement. Wooosshh ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #98 November 12, 2011 Quote So then, why is it that students are allowed to hire camera jumpers from their very first jump? Wouldn't the presence of a camera, by your logic, cause a student to be more susceptible to a low pull because he's showing off for the camera? I very much doubt that's the case. It's probably the opposite way around, a student would be so consumed by trying to get the jump right that the student would forget all about that ContourHD stuck to his head. Is there a potential threshold at which the value of a small format camera might outweigh the risks, in your eyes? What about a ContourGPS? It's got to be difficult to argue against having a graphical flight path displayed on GoogleMaps inset on a video of the jump. Flight Recorder The problem is that jumpers can't seem to plan a jump and jump the plan. Is it really that hard to do a proper skydive? Or, is this a territorial dispute because of professional video jumpers who are going to lose money because they've been largely replaced by technology? Is the C-License requirement just a moritoreum to keep camera jumpers employed by restricting jumpers from grabbing their own videos? It just seems to me that there's more to this than just the safety issue. I salute you on this excellent troll. No matter how dumb it is you have managed to suck people right in. I think when people take a second look at your post they will realize you couldn’t possibly mean the things you have written. Well done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #99 November 12, 2011 What you don't know... is that a LOT of vidiots and the people in front of the camera....trying to get cool video... are now dead. Some of them were my friends. What you do not know in this sport... can indeed be lethal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danielcroft 2 #100 November 12, 2011 Quote Who the hell is in charge at the Ranch these days? Just because he says he's going to keep jumping the camera doesn't mean he is. IMO, if I'd taken a low pull down to AAD firing I'd ground myself for a while and really work out what happened before jumping again. I can imagine it happening but damn, I'd have had to have really fucked up to get there. Quote 200 jumps, C license and not being a complete fuckwit is required before jumping with camera. Sorted d100965 - win Hasn't anyone learned? When someone posts a video like this, download a copy because it's sure to be taken down quick smart after they feel the heat. Yes, I did. I'm not trying to burn Denis and as I said, I wasn't there when this happend but I know who spoke with him and I know they're not the types to fuck around or mince words. I have faith in both of those people, trust them and respect them. I'm heading up this weekend, I'll see what the deal is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
