Stiletto VS Cobalt

[r2hubert 0]

After testing a stiletto 150 and 135, I can say that I love this canopy! But I was lurking the forum and read lots of good stuff about the cobalt.
I have several questions:
- I didn't find any chart about this canopy regarding the pack volume and the recommended size.
- I couldn't find either the type of lines they are using on this canopy.

From what I have seen and heard, a 120 should do it for me. I first look at this canopy after the stiletto because of the opening characteristics: less chance of a spinning mal than a stiletto, soft opening and good glide ratio (from what I have read).

Thanks

--
Renaud SMA #9
"Mind is like parachute. It only functions when it's open."

[Ron 10]

Do a search...this topic has been beaten to death.

Best advice try it...and buy the one you like better.

No real problems with either canopy personally.

I have a Stiletto however. Probley just because I have maybe ~1,500 jumps on Stiletto's. I have 1,000 on a 107. So I am VERY comfertable with it.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[r2hubert 0]

I know I read a lot on this forum about this but I haven't seen anything about:
- Charts and pack volume
- Line type (Vectran, Spectran, HMA...)

Thanks

--
Renaud SMA #9
"Mind is like parachute. It only functions when it's open."

[Ron 10]

Pack volume is about the same as same size Stiletto...
I put a 105 in place of my 107,and I didn't have to change anything.

I THINK both use the same lines....I could be wrong

Just call Cobalt....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Professor 0]

Quote

less chance of a spinning mal than a stiletto, soft opening

This hasn't been everybody's experience w/ the Co. They are not the cure all to spinning mals or slammers.

Pack volume is about the same, some say the cobalt packs up a little bigger, but that hasn't been my experience w/ the 3 i've flown. The lines must be spectra, from things Atair has said.

Both are nice canopies, you'll be happy w/ either.

have fun.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

[hookitt 1]

Stiletto has the rep for pretty good reason but it has been tamed since the origin of the canopy. Since it's name very easily converts to Spinetto, it will never lose it's prestige in the spinner of all spinners category. That and there are SO MANY of them out there.

I have 1000's of jumps on Stilettos and have cutaway only a few for that reason. One from a premature brake release in freefall, and I was unable to clear the other brake on opening. PM me for details on the rest if you wish.

Other Canopies spin up and you'll find the Cobalt has it's potential as well. If spinning is a concern, I could highly advise stayin away from high performance canopies.

Any way, The Cobalt fliers at our DZ have good luck with them. There is only one 105 comp model and the user has no trouble either.

I jumped a Comp model and though I loved the flight characteristics, I was unable to handle the beating it was regularily dishing out. PM me for details if you wish.

If you stop up some time there are a few to try out if you wish. Then you can make the call.

-

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[TALONSKY 0]

Have you ever thought about a Crossfire 2? They are a really great canopy with incredible opennings and awesome flight characteristics.
Kirk

[freakyflyr11 0]

if i were you id demo a crossfire 2 but if your set on a cobalt i have a compition model 120 with no jumps id sell you for a good price.email me if you want to talk more...

[LawnDart21 0]

Howdy! I think you should demo a Cobalt before buying a Stilletto. I went from a Stiletto to a Cobalt and wish I did sooner. I loved the Cobalt so much, I became a dealer here in the Northeast. I have jumped just about every elliptcial/crossbrace out there, and while VXs and Velcocities and Comp Cobalts are in the upper echelon of all the canopies out there, for a pure non crossbraced elliptical, you can't beat the "bang for the buck" that a Cobalt will give you. Great openings, amazing glide ratio, deep/strong bottom end flare. If you fly it you will buy it. I am jumping a 105 Cobalt loaded 2.0 (no fat bastard jokes....lol), and it is the best canopy I have ever hung under, I wish I bought it sooner.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[GroundZero 0]

r2hubert,

Don't forget about the Nitron... same class as the other canopies you're describing...

contact me regarding demos... let me know where you'll be jumping, it's quite possible that demos are coming to a dz/boogie near you.

The Nitron is a higher performance 9 cell canopy, with a few interesting features... winglets... meshed endcell openings... continuous lines... see our website for specifics...

(sorry I don't know how to do the clicky thingy, help me out here somebody!)

http://aerodynamics.com/Ground_Zero/PAGES/Nitron.htm

Pack volume on the Nitron 120 is 349 c.i.... (one note on packvolume versus material used... We build these canopies with Performance Textiles SoarCoat fabric...same as the PD Stilletto... the Cobalt is built with Gelvanor fabric as are the German Nitros... Pack volume on the Nitro 120 is 394 c.i.... the Gelvanor fabric does pack larger in the same application. From my experience the Gelvanor seems to perform and last as well, just is somewhat bulkier...)

call or email for demos...

Chris Martin
Precision Aerodynamics

chris@precision.net
423-949-4688

[Ron 10]

One more thing....

Take anything a guy with a canopy to sell (Dealer or single person) with a grain of salt...

Jump the canopies that you want and make a choice based on your own feelings....

I would also recomend that you look around at what the guys around you are jumping....

If everyone at your DZ has Z brand canopy...Well there might be a reason, and if you have a different canopy..you will not be able to ask them questions.

Also....NEVER BE THE FIRST KID ON YOUR BLOCK TO HAVE A NEW TOY. you will live longer.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[GroundZero 0]

http://aerodynamics.com/Ground_Zero/PAGES/Nitron.htm

did it work?

Thanks Hookitt for the pointers!

[GroundZero 0]

I made a clicky! I made a clicky!

(I've always wanted to do that... see, you can teach an old dog new tricks!!!)

[hookitt 1]

You're welcome.
Tim

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[r2hubert 0]

Quote

Don't forget about the Nitron... same class as the other canopies you're describing...

The only reason I will not consider jumping a Nitron is because of the line set. I do not feel comfortable jumping HMA lines or Vectran.

Thanks anyway for pointing something different.

--
Renaud SMA #9
"Mind is like parachute. It only functions when it's open."

[Watcher 0]

Thats a shame cause they are amazing lines, that offer amazing performance and longevity trim benefits. I would perfer to have all my canopies (I have a Jedei 105 thats Spectra) lined in Vectran or HMA. All you worry about is replaceing the break lines ever 300 jumps or so which is pretty easy to do.

--

Jonathan Bartlett
D-24876
AFF-I

[LawnDart21 0]

I totally agree with you Ron. That's why I mentioned I was a dealer, I wanted it out in the open. Of course my opinion is definitely biased, but for good reason, it's a kick ass canopy/company!!! Everyone has that perfect canopy out there for them to find, something that matches their needs best, the only way to go is to demo them all, then decide.

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[Swoopyswoop 0]

Hey renauld, I have a couple of cobalt demo's coming buddy, just pick one up from me one weekend at hollister and try it for yourself
Scotty

"when I die, I want to go like my grandfather while im sleeping, not like the passengers riding in the car with me
Swoopster
A.S.S. #6 Future T.S.S holder

[lurch 0]

Hmmm. I was looking for info on canopies and specifically cobalts because I'm starting to see them mentioned a bit around here, and because I see YOU flying one...although I was thinking used in the 140-150-160 range. why am I not surprised to find you here. Looking for more info on various canopy flight/spin/flare characteristics. This 190 is ok but landing long off the cessna sunday annoyed me. I had to work it hard to hit the dz at all....and the double sabre lines and inconsistent openings annoy the hell out of me. Thing I love about the 190 is the apparently almost unlimited flare capacity...seems no matter how deep I dig it always has a little more lift to give. Will I find anything else higher loaded zero-p to be the same or is that just a characteristic of an underloaded zero-p? I want the next canopy to have that same awesome flare...it has already repeatedly come in handy downwind gustwind and crosswind where under my olde f-111 pd210 I would have tumbled. I'm totally sick of being way underloaded and having to discipline the sabre to open its end cells. Compared to the 210 the sabre is downright reluctant to open fully. I get the impression a .84 loading at 110 jumps is maybe a bit TOO conservative. I think I want to avoid a stiletto under basic principles...anything so known for getting chopped for diving twists it rates the nick "spinetto" tells me all I need to know. I don't need the worry. I had enough of line twists on that nasty trimless rascal 232 last year, thanks.
ok ok....whats a new cobalt go for anyway? I should know better than to solicit a known biased opinion....
...And why was I told recently by another dz resident that icarus canopies are black death? Shay seemed rather happy with HIS as I recall....

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Ron 10]

Quote

I'm totally sick of being way underloaded and having to
discipline the sabre to open its end cells. Compared to the 210 the sabre is downright reluctant to open
fully. I get the impression a .84 loading at 110 jumps is maybe a bit TOO conservative

No such thing as TOO conservative. You will live longer.

Quote

ok ok....whats a new cobalt go for anyway? I should know better than to solicit a known biased opinion....

No, asking a dealer what a canopy costs is exactly what you should ask him...Asking him what is the best canopy for you...Well another topic. He can only say what type of canopy HIS brand has that would fit you.

Also, beware the dealer that trash talks the other canopies to make his sound better...He should sell you on his brand, not slam the others down past his level.

Quote

And why was I told recently by another dz resident that icarus canopies are black death? Shay seemed
rather happy with HIS as I recall....

Because Icarus had a number of canopies that did collapse. One did it durring a swoop meet killing a very good pilot, and a friend to many. So now some people label ALL Icarus canopies as "Black Death". Like the Nova of old.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[lurch 0]

Ok process of elimination here....forget icarus then, right off the bat I want reliable and trouble-free so scratch icarus, scratch spinetto.
As for too conservative....
I'm told by older jumper the sabre plays games with me with the end cells because I'm underloading it. Riding in deep brakes recently it collapsed in a stall and did NOT want to reopen...left front folded under itself, end cells stayed closed, it started trying to hang a corner...didn't spin up but acted like it was trying to. I got somewhat alarmed and had to get aggressive with the risers and brakes pumping it and hanging short hard turns trying to get it to reinflate...it did, but cost me altitude, time, and concentration better spent watching where I'm flying... That "reluctant-to-open" behavior again. Spooky. My old raggedy 210 never gave me this shit and I do NOT like it. Its one thing to have a canopy you always have to waste time fucking with on deploy....its another to have one that might pull that shit on you a bit lower down. I'm imagining the results of hitting turbulence/medium bumpy ride below 1000 feet while cornering or braking hard. not good. I'm basically just shooting for a 1-to-1 load give or take a bit since the downside of underloading seems to bite me on the ass so frequently i.e. stopped cold/blown backwards by wind everyone else can fly into, and this end cell issue... No matter what, next canopy I fly will be another baby step....a 170. Probably keep me happy for months. I'll STILL be less than 1 wingload under that but hopefully I won't blow away quite so easy and hopefully it won't want to play games like the sabre 190. At first I thought I'd be happy with and settle on a 170 for a year or so but after the 190 I'm not so sure...which is why I'm starting to look into the 150 range. I have NO intention of going off and trying to fly say a 125 or something....I want bigger, but not too big. My priority is keeping that delicious bottomless flare action...THAT part feels LOADS safer to fly than the old 210...(I've stood up every single landing under this thing (190) under all conditions I've landed it without so much as jarring an ankle including downwind, crosswind)....but in something a little less tricky than this sabre. LOVE the landings...hate the deployments. Suggestions?

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[PhreeZone 20]

I've had my old Cobalt spin up like a Stiletto before so you can't say the canopy is immune. At 1.25:1 my Cobalt had closed end cells probally 50% of the jumps. Icarus (as much as i disagree with their handling of the Crossfire 1's) does make a nice product. PD is'nt immune to canopy issues. Vengences have slowly had their trim changed to produce better openings and prevent spins. The only canopy that has never had an issue is the canopy thats never been jumped.

Why don't you look at a Sabre2/Pilot/Lotus/Safire2? They are a less aggressive flying canopy that is a good all around canopy.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Ron 10]

Quote

forget icarus then, right off the bat I want reliable and trouble-free so
scratch icarus, scratch spinetto.

Well you can scratch them if you like.
I personally have 1,500 jumps on a Stiletto, and love it. In fact I just bought another one. Yes they are HIGH PERFORMANCE..And just like anything that is high performance...It is harder to handle. But ALL canopies have issues...You just have to decide which are OK with you.

The Crossfire was one one canopy, and only a handful of those were the problem...I have heard nothing but good things about the Xfire 2.

Quote

'm told by older jumper the sabre plays games with me with the end cells because I'm underloading it

Probley true...However closed end cells are not a malfunction, and can be landed.

Quote

Riding in deep brakes recently it collapsed in a stall and did NOT want to reopen...left front folded under
itself, end cells stayed closed, it started trying to hang a corner...didn't spin up but acted like it was trying
to.

The problem here is riding in deep brakes....My old Star Trac I...Like 260 square feet will stall if I ride it too long in deep brakes. My Stiletto will stall, spin and get chopped if I ride it too long in deep brakes.

As for sugestions...Try a Sabre 2, or a Specter at a 1.1 wingload. Both have impressed me very much. You can call PD and they will send you one...Get the 170 and jump it...See how it feels...

Its the only way you are going to know what to get is to fly it.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Dazzle 0]

Spectre

[lurch 0]

Hmm. just from those replies so far I get the impression its not the loading then thats biting me on the ass...more like my own inexperience. Ain't even close to ready to go hi-performance yet, we'll see what happens when I hit up the rigger for the 170. Like I said, I'll probably be happy under it for months if the sabre 190 is any indication. That bottomless flare makes landings fun and tasty and I hope the 170 is more of the same.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.