Buring Pal Format Using Final Cut Stuio

[Trebec 0]

So i exported my movie in PAL format, then made the DVD portion of it on DVD studio, also in PAL. I went to check it on my dvd player, thinking it wouldnt work because america is on the NTSC Format, but it worked however it was a little choppy. Everything was to beat but when the footage zoomed it seemed not smooth. My question is, why did it work on my player and also is the not smooth thing just a PAL format thing, and will look smooth in Europe or what?

[vid666 0]

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So i exported my movie in PAL format, then made the DVD portion of it on DVD studio, also in PAL. I went to check it on my dvd player, thinking it wouldnt work because america is on the NTSC Format, but it worked however it was a little choppy. Everything was to beat but when the footage zoomed it seemed not smooth. My question is, why did it work on my player and also is the not smooth thing just a PAL format thing, and will look smooth in Europe or what?

Depending on the model of your DVD player it could be dual format - and capable of reading PAL - in which case the sound would be fine, but the image would skip on the TV. Also you could have a player that can convert on the fly - but is just pretty bad at it. Just my 2 cents

Google your players model number and the word PAL - you might get your answer

[DSE 5]

These days many set tops will play out PAL, but the choppiness is a potential indicator of a different issue; excessive bitrate.
At what bitrate did you encode?
The problem could also be PAL, what happens when you play it in your computer DVD player? It should suffer nearly as easily if it's a bitrate issue, by comparison to the set top.
Be sure your encode is less than 8.5 Mpbs, and see if you still run into the choppiness issue.
Remember you can do a two-pass encode if you're using a high bitrate vs a two pass.

[quade 4]

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My question is, why did it work on my player and also is the not smooth thing just a PAL format thing, and will look smooth in Europe or what?

Unfortunately, there are simply too many variables we don't know about involved here for any definitive answer to either question.

"Skipping" could be a bad encode, bad (or even no) PAL to NTSC conversion, the player itself, the DVD media and probably a few things I haven't thought of either singularly or in combination.

Will it look smooth in Europe? Unfortunately, even if the encoding is -perfect- there's no guarantee that the DVD will even PLAY in the machine just based on the DVD media alone.

Do-it-yourself DVDs are still not perfect. The best answer I can give is to send the disk and ask the repicient if it worked ok.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Trebec 0]

Thanks for the input.

[DSE 5]

Quade makes a couple of excellent points; that said, if you use a high-grade media such as TY, and keep the bitrate at sub 8.7Mpbs, chances are exceptionally good that it will play correctly.
We make PAL DVDs on a daily basis. One of our rooms is strictly "desktop cheap" gear, and we have zero issue. We still burn two of every disc, because as Quade mentions, desktop burning still isn't "perfect" but like skydiving, you can stack the odds in your favor by watching the bitrate, using good media, and being sure your encoder is entirely spec-compliant. All of the bigger brand encoders are compliant.
Fortunately this will get better soon, with BD burning on the horizon.

[dorbie 0]

It depends what you mean by choppy. It's probably that the formats are inherently different frame rates, NTSC ~30Hz interlaced and PAL is 25Hz interlaced.

Playback of the wrong field rate in any device will depend on the inherent standards conversion capabilities of the device. They are incompatible because the output frame rate for the display (NTSC)does not match the recorded frame rate (PAL). It doesn't matter what device you burn this on, the framerate issue remains. So you're relying on the standards conversion capability of a consumer playback device and it's just not made for that. Often they will play both comfortably but this means PAL for PAL output and NTSC for NTSC output (with the right settings). When doing PAL to NTSC it's just pot luck, it works but there's no temporal filtering and you see stuttering. It'll be addressed with a really high end playback if someone has cared to do good temporal filtering for the standards conversion you need but it's off the beaten path w.r.t. what joe public gives a crap about buying.

[DSE 5]

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It depends what you mean by choppy. It's probably that the formats are inherently different frame rates, NTSC ~30Hz interlaced and PAL is 25Hz interlaced.

Playback of the wrong field rate in any device will depend on the inherent standards conversion capabilities of the device. They are incompatible because the output frame rate for the display (NTSC)does not match the recorded frame rate (PAL). It doesn't matter what device you burn this on, the framerate issue remains. So you're relying on the standards conversion capability of a consumer playback device and it's just not made for that. Often they will play both comfortably but this means PAL for PAL output and NTSC for NTSC output (with the right settings). When doing PAL to NTSC it's just pot luck, it works but there's no temporal filtering and you see stuttering. It'll be addressed with a really high end playback if someone has cared to do good temporal filtering for the standards conversion you need but it's off the beaten path w.r.t. what joe public gives a crap about buying.

Not to nitpick, but NTSC is 60Hz, PAL is 50Hz, and doing a framerate conversion in any decent software tool will either correctly generate frames (when going from PAL to NTSC) or intelligently remove/blend frames (NTSC to PAL). Some software does this poorly, including FCS, but many tools do a great job of conversion. Additionally, most consumer PAL DVD players do a very good job of blending frames when playing NTSC DVDs, but most NTSC DVD players won't play PAL at all, and those that do, most of them do a poor job.

[dorbie 0]

I explicitly said interlaced, you get a half field at ~60Hz & 50Hz.

I think we both agree it probably doesn't matter what software is capable of in this context as it's down to the standards conversion capabilities of the playback device.

[DSE 5]

Half field or not, the format is ALWAYS 60Hz or 50Hz. That is the frequency at which the electricity operates, and the frequency at which the clock is timed. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about 720 x 576 50i, 720 x 576 25p, 720 x 480 60i, 720 x 480 30p, 720 x 480 24p, or HD in those same framerates. The cycle is always 60Hz or 50Hz, interlaced, progressive, or PsF.
If you disagree with the above, you probably should hit the books.
The original post spcifies that he's converting to PAL in FCS, and playing back on NTSC. What we don't know is if he's tested the DVD on a PAL DVD player. Some NTSC DVD settops can play PAL with no issue; most can't play it at all. So the first issue to eliminate is whether the settop can play PAL at all. One way to check the PAL disc is to put it in the computer DVD player. Since it's likely not region-protected, it should play without problems in the computer.

[dorbie 0]

I never disagreed, I merely pointed out that I meant full frame rate with interlacing rather than interlaced field rate. You'll find it's very common to to see standard definition NTSC called 30i.
I used to work for Silicon Graphics and debugged 3:2 pulldown algorithms on ONYX systems so I don't need to "hit the books" thanks.

P.S. my use of the word frame rate was specific, interlaced formats have two fields per frame, odd and even, it's just the nomenclature used.