Riggers? How often do you change the reserve closing loop.

[okalb 104]

I recently heard of a rigger that changes the loop every third pack job and was curious what everyone else does.

-OK

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[skygod7777 0]

i change customers loops ever re-pack.

i change my personal one, like every 3rd probably

later

[sid 1]

I change them every time, it's a few cents worth of material and I consider it a part of the repack

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[deadwood 0]

Every time on a "normal rig" Much less often on a Racer. (I assume you are talking about a Cypres loop) My theory is the most amount of abuse a loop gets is during the closing process. A used loop that looks OK usually doesn't when you done closing the rig.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[masher 1]

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Every time on a "normal rig" Much less often on a Racer.

Why is that?

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[alain 0]

airtec stands that their loop should be changed on eveyr repack, no ?
(I'm not a rigger, yet )
Alain

[BadDog 0]

Yes, Airtec recommends replacing the loop at each repack. See http://www.airtec.cc/L_W_eng.pdf

[riggerrob 643]

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Every time on a "normal rig" Much less often on a Racer.

Why is that?

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Hee! Hee!
Another Racer question.
The problem is that there are two ways to replace reserve closing loops on Racers: the factory way and the easy way.
Replacing a reserve closing loop the factory (Jump Shack) way involves a half hour of fussy hand stitching.
The easy way involves doing it the Airtec (aka. Cypres factory) way and just sliding a new loop into a tape channel permanently sewn to the pilotchute, at most a one minute job.

The problem is that John Sherman (recently-retired President of Jump Shack) hates the Airtec method and has threatened to ask the FAA to tear up the license of any American rigger using the Airtec method.
The biggest problem is that John Sherman gets so angry, that he cannot explain his disapproval in a logical manner.
Oh - and about 5 years ago - a group of California riggers table-tested both loops and could not see the difference in deployments.

So let's challenge Jump Shack to come up with a logical explanation of why they discourage installing Airtec loops in Racers.

[chutingstar 1]

I replace the loop if there is any wear/broken strands whatsoever. I take the loop out and hold it up to a light...you can tell quickly if there are any broken strands. It's usually every repack...sometimes the loop is still in perfect condition and can be left in for a second repack. We go through a lot of Cypres cord at our loft (loops and pullup cords) and it's not very cheap, but it is a necessary part of the basic repack process.

There are only a few rigs we charge extra for when replacing a reserve loop (Racer, Reflex, TSE) because it takes a bit more time or loop material to replace. All other reserve loop replacements are included in the basic reserve inspection/repack price.

Hope that helps,
Mike

ChutingStar.com

[deadwood 0]

The way a Racer closes subjects the loop to much less abuse (IMHO). They usually still look pretty good after a few pack jobs.

He who hesitates shall inherit the earth.

Deadwood
Skydive New Mexico Motorcycle Club, Touring Division

[NightJumper 0]

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So let's challenge Jump Shack to come up with a logical explanation of why they discourage installing Airtec loops in Racers.

Why, the mfg. has stated their approved method since they are responsible for their design and have already stated that they have reviewed the Airtec method and will not approve it. Or are you doing this as usual to cause controversy since you have never said anything good about their products or owners and you alrady know that it will not result in a change. Rob, you have made it very clear that you do not like Racers so why continue to beat a dead horse and only lower others view of you when you have so many good things to offer about equipment. Your time would be better spent and respected if you kept to your positive contributions.

Also Nancy is and has been the President and as of Friday John was still there. They must be doing somthing right as they have doubled the number of employees during the last year and production is at an all time high.

[riggerrob 643]

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So let's challenge Jump Shack to come up with a logical explanation of why they discourage installing Airtec loops in Racers.

Why, the mfg. has stated their approved method since they are responsible for their design and have already stated that they have reviewed the Airtec method and will not approve it. Or are you doing this as usual to cause controversy since you have never said anything good about their products or owners and you alrady know that it will not result in a change. Rob, you have made it very clear that you do not like Racers so why continue to beat a dead horse and only lower others view of you when you have so many good things to offer about equipment. Your time would be better spent and respected if you kept to your positive contributions.

Also Nancy is and has been the President and as of Friday John was still there. They must be doing somthing right as they have doubled the number of employees during the last year and production is at an all time high.

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I will back down on bad-mouthing Racers after someone provides a logical explanation as why Jump Shack frowns upon Airtec pattern closing loops.

Remember that you are trying to convince someone who has observed dozens of table tests with both configurations.

[NightJumper 0]

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I will back down on bad-mouthing Racers after someone provides a logical explanation as why Jump Shack frowns upon Airtec pattern closing loops.

You are clearly under some misconception that you have rights to certain information. The Mfg. has made their decision, get on with your life, Otherwise buy the company and change what you want with it.

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Remember that you are trying to convince someone who has observed dozens of table tests with both configurations.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. I was only offering you constructive criticism because I think that you have a lot of knowledge to offer the industry and your "bad-mouthing" does not make the Mfg. look bad, it makes you look exactly like you have just said, it's just "bad-mouthing". By your own words there is no objectivity in your views about this Mfg. People do not generally perceive consistent negative comments from someone well. Like I said before, stick to the proactive constructive knowledge that you usually provide and that I generally look forward to as you will provide skydiving with a wonderful source of knowledge and information for years to come.

[riggerrob 643]

I was only offering you constructive criticism because I think that you have a lot of knowledge to offer the industry and your "bad-mouthing" does not make the Mfg. look bad, it makes you look exactly like you have just said, it's just "bad-mouthing". By your own words there is no objectivity in your views about this Mfg. People do not generally perceive consistent negative comments from someone well. Like I said before, stick to the proactive constructive knowledge that you usually provide and that I generally look forward to as you will provide skydiving with a wonderful source of knowledge and information for years to come.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I will back down on bad-mouthing Racers after someone provides a logical explanation as why Jump Shack frowns upon Airtec pattern closing loops.

You are clearly under some misconception that you have rights to certain information. The Mfg. has made their decision, get on with your life, Otherwise buy the company and change what you want with it.

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Remember that you are trying to convince someone who has observed dozens of table tests with both configurations.

I am not trying to convince you of anything. I was only offering you constructive criticism because I think that you have a lot of knowledge to offer the industry and your "bad-mouthing" does not make the Mfg. look bad, it makes you look exactly like you have just said, it's just "bad-mouthing". By your own words there is no objectivity in your views about this Mfg. People do not generally perceive consistent negative comments from someone well. Like I said before, stick to the proactive constructive knowledge that you usually provide and that I generally look forward to as you will provide skydiving with a wonderful source of knowledge and information for years to come.

I strongly disagree with your comments towards Riggerrob. I think a dissenting opinion is healthy for this sport. I value and respect Riggerrobs opinions on gear even if I don't always agree with everything he says. There have been times in the past with this sport that manufactureres have been taken to task on the safety of their merchandise because we had voices like Riggerrob. If you don't agree with him on a topic, then rebut what he says with contrary facts. IMO it is you who has diminished stature because of your efforts to silence Riggerrob.

[NightJumper 0]

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If you don't agree with him on a topic, then rebut what he says with contrary facts. IMO it is you who has diminished stature because of your efforts to silence Riggerrob.

For the record, I agree with Rob on the topic as I would like to do the Aitec Loops (who said I did not?). I did rebut what he said with contrary facts. Fact: This has been brought to the Mfg. attention and they have chosen to not make any changes. Fact: Given this, it is non-constructive to continue the bashing since they are not going to change. Fact: I never said Rob should not bring up any topic and in fact I encourage such discussions but this one has been beat to death and there has to be a point where you just move on. Fact: No one is going to silence Rob Fact: I have no stature, so there is nothing to diminish

[rigpacker 0]

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The problem is that there are two ways to replace reserve closing loops on Racers: the factory way and the easy way.

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uh... no, manufacturer instructions supersedes all others when dealing with containers
***Replacing a reserve closing loop the factory (Jump Shack) way involves a half hour of fussy hand stitching.

give us a call, we have easier ways than this

Oh - and about 5 years ago - a group of California riggers table-tested both loops and could not see the difference in deployments.

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i would like to see this data
the "airtec way" utilizes a "non adjustable, floating" closing loop.
Back when Helmet introduced the idea, we evaluated and rejected it on the grounds that our loop has already went through the tso process, and there is a
senario that we looked at that could make the floating closing loop jam, resulting in......a really bad day

healthy banter is what makes this country great [email]al@jumpshack.com

[riggerrob 643]

Finally, rigpacker is starting to come up with some logical explanations.

Sorry, but I was under the impression that Airtec recommended an adjustable loop - similar to Jump Shacks' configuration - only not sewn to the pilotchute cap.
That is the configuration we tested at Adventure Sports Loft in Perris about 6 years ago. All the table tests were video-taped, but I doubt if the tape has survived.
We tested a Racer - with freebag, etc. - with both loop configurations. Towards the end we tried pulling only one pin on the Airtec configuration and were never able to duplicate any kind of jam or hesitation. All tests had the same result: the pilotchute launching NOW!

Rigpacker, please explain in more detail the jamming scenario encountered by Jump Shack.

[bunge 0]

I've jsut begun to learn to rig, but the rigger teaching me also thinks, change the loop, its cheap.

it would piss me off to get the container almost all the way closed then have a loop break.

BUNGE

I don't hate them, I just like us better.

[rigpacker 0]

had a new one do that to me once on a javlin
made me see red

[riggerrob 643]

We have all broken a few loops and a few pull up cords.
Murphy's law ensures that they only break on the last flap, with the customer looking over your shoulder because the rest of the load is waiting for him to gear up on the highest profile demo of the year!

[chutingstar 1]

For those riggers interested, I added some more thoughts on this subject in this week's Rigger "Rant and Rave" at Chutingstar.com. The direct link is http://www.chutingstar.com/riggerrantandrave.html
Enjoy.
Mike

ChutingStar.com