TallGuy 0 #1 August 24, 2007 So I'm very excited about the prospect of using solid state HD cameras in freefall. With their light weight, fewer moving parts (zoom?), and ease of media removal it really does seem like the best of most worlds. Well almost... Sony's only current offering in this arena that I am aware of is the HDR-CX7. It seems like a great camera but what happened to the LANC interface? I want my CamEye!!! I thought all Sony video cameras had them? Another thing I'm curious about is that it is only advertised as supporting up to 4GB memory stick. Does Sony's new 8GB stick works in the unit? I suppose half an hour of high quality vid is OK but I'd be MUCH happier with the standard hour. Does anyone have an inside track on Sony's future plans for LANC? Is this one camera an isolated case? Should I just wait for a newer model? Is this a sign of things to come? I know AVCHD is not the most easilly edittable format but it sounds like this may soon change if it hasn't already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #2 August 24, 2007 Quite a few of the new cameras from Sony don't have the LANC port. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mustang69 0 #3 August 24, 2007 An earlier post suggests there is a workaround for an indicator light but I don't know what it is. Hopefully it isn't saying, "Hey buddy. What color is the light?" The camera documentation had me wondering about the memory stick, too. So, I looked on the Sony Style site - http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11040818&tab=Compatibility to see if the 8GB stick will work with the HDR-CX7 before I ordered one. Since I have been using it I can say first hand that it does work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BGill 0 #4 August 24, 2007 My understanding from previous threads was that the general consumer has little to no use for the Lanc port, so they are eliminating it from consumer cameras. Professional grade equipment will still have Lanc ports. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TallGuy 0 #5 August 24, 2007 Discouraging. Maybe we could put together a petition just so Sony knows that there are people using their consumer/prosumer products out there that still want the interface. A work around for the indicator is good to have but I also love the remote operation offered by the CamEye. Sounds kludgey but maybe someone can make a device that works like the skylight2 by powering itself off of the camera's battery and relaying the cameras tally light to it's LED but would have a new function of passing remote commands to the camera's IR interface. I'm sure it'd be ugly, but it would get the job done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #6 August 24, 2007 Sony Electronics OEM owns the LANC protocol. Building it into a camera requires a license. A license costs $$. Canon dropped LANC from their consumer cams, and Sony consumer dropped it. Pro-sumer and professional products will continue to offer it. In fact, the newly announced HDR 1000U has a LANC on it as well. LANC doesn't serve as well in a non-taped based format, simply because there is no start/stop mechanism/protocol like there is for tape. However, they seem to forget that zoom, focus, aperture, start record/stop record are all LANC-accessible features that not everyone can use with an IR remote. that said....be on the lookout for new products that can indicate record without a LANC port. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #7 August 25, 2007 . . . . . alert....... Old school video guy posting here.... there WAS a time before Cam Eyes were available.. lanc port or not.... and as another poster here commented,, it IS a hassle to ask others around you,, "Is my record light ON "???? A decade ago I got around that bit of nuisance by taking advantage of the red indicator light ON the camcorder itself.. I trust that these new hard drive models DO still have a red 'record indicator ' light somewhere near the front of the housing....IF it was not covered in gaffers tape, and NOT in a closed box,,, and IF the light was visible to a fellow jumper in the plane, while the helmet was ON the vidographer's head......then, The the 2 dollar solution ( and this worked really well ) ,,, was to carry a small folding cosmetic mirror in the pocket of the jumpsuit... As jump run begins, the mirror is opened and the video person, uses it himself or herself, to check that red light personally..... You can go from standby to RECORD,, check the mirror to assure the light is ON, flip the mirror closed and stow it into a leg or shoulder, or chest pocket, in a lot less time than it takes for me to type these instructions... Works... ( worked ) just fine... But lost favor when the cam eyes became more readily available.... Perhaps it's time for a resurgence.... sometimes simple can be better than 'high -tech'... jmy ps...when in the plane with a pretty girl nearby, student OR fun jumper,,, I always played the following trick..I'd open the mirror, hold it in my hand, ask the girl,," Would You like to see something beautiful!!!???...... If she said " Yes ", or " sure" or nodded , then I'd turn the mirror around and have her look into it....hahahaha.. it would ALWAYS get a grin and a smile from her, and I made a lot of friends that way....hell i might just put that mirror back in my jumpsuit.... cam eye,,, LANC port...... or NOT !!!!! skydive safely j edited to correct spelling error Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lister55 0 #8 August 25, 2007 I do the same thing with the mirror except I have a cheaper and better way!! For about .50 cents you can get one of those mirrors that you stick on your side view mirror of your car and take the back off, sew it to the wrist strap of your altimeter and then put the mirror back on the backing. Now all you have to do is look at your alti and you can see the red record light is on. I have dubbed it my 50 cent cam eye. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #9 August 25, 2007 But, but, but, but...Jimmy! Using a mirror is SO uncool. And then there is the safety side. You might biff on landing and then the mirror shatters, driving shards of cheap glass coated with toxic chemicals into your leg or midriff!Seriously, with no LANC, your mirror idea is likely the best one, since if there is no start/stop access via switch....gotta touch the camera anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #10 August 25, 2007 I don 't know about that, I found my 2.00 photocell homemade "cam eye" worked real well for many years. I would even say the mirrors fell out of fashion long before the real "cam eyes" hit the market. I also find some what funny to see so many noobies not having a clue, these are/ were the same types who use to make fun of us guys who were using our 2.00 dollar radio shack homemade "photo cell cameyes" instead of running out to buy the 55.oo dollar ones. Now the cycle has come full circle and it's funny to sit back and watch so many, "what we do's".you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #11 August 25, 2007 ..... BIFF!!!??????? surely you jest !!!if one hasn't figured out the way to avoid such landings,,,,,,,then that might be the first thing to concentrate on,,, before adding cameras to the mix!!!!! hahahaha as for Uncool...... too late to start worrying about THAT... at this point in time ..... ps.... i tend to run all the camera functions, from the camera anyway, leaving the Cam Eye switch covered with it's plastic cap, and buried up inside the helmet liner, anyway... and as stratostar points out.... throwing money at something isn't ALWAYS necessary... inexpensive doesn't always equate to cheap... true enough though,,, the mirror trick is dated, and God Forbid!!!!! we climb into an airplane in this day and age,,, without alllll the cool new toys...!!! to steal a line from "Fernando" ( SNL ) ,, "it is better to LOOK good , than to BE good" and ..... " Youuu looook Mahhhhhvelous" does seem to be the current mantra, at dz's near and far.... be safe, take care of your gear, be considerite of others, skydive with enthusiasm.... That's cool enough for me jaytee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #12 August 25, 2007 Quote I don 't know about that, I found my 2.00 photocell homemade "cam eye" worked real well for many years. I would even say the mirrors fell out of fashion long before the real "cam eyes" hit the market. well said... I used to do that sort of thing a lot when I was a kid... btw: thanks for the photocell I haven't had time to put it together but at least I'll be able to function (without the use of a mirror) if the LANC is phased out on all consumer models. DSE: out of curiosity if Sony Electronics owns the LANC protocol why would they have to pay the licensing fees to install them in their cameras... or is Sony consumer electronics different from Sony Electronics? Of course I'm cool if you don't know the answer to that question... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #13 August 25, 2007 Unbeknownst or misunderstood by most...Sony is an umbrella company. The divisions within Sony compete with each other with a ferocity of Microsoft and Linux. Many divisions have competing products. What sucks especially is when you see the OEM division buying non-Sony product even though they make the very product they're buying. A couple cases in point....ever notice a Sony VAIO comes with Adobe Premiere installed but Sony develops Sony Vegas? Or... When the consumer division made the HC1 and Broadcast wasn't expecting it, so the consumer version was phased out in favor of the A1U professional version of the camcorder? It's seriously messed up. So....Sony Electronics has to pay a royalty to their sister company that manages OEM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #14 August 25, 2007 Quote Unbeknownst or misunderstood by most...Sony is an umbrella company.I suspected something to that effect... Thanks...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 August 27, 2007 quite a few otters ive seen have one of the smaller window mirrors (you know the one cubicaldwellers have on their monitors) on the back wall.. the simplest solution is best imo.. those mirrors are very cheap and you can check rather easily before you climb out... expecting the major manufacturers to cater to our tiny market is a bit silly.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TallGuy 0 #16 August 27, 2007 QuoteExpecting the major manufacturers to cater to our tiny market is a bit silly. First, never underestimate the power of a VOCAL minority. If they don't know there are people who want it why should they continue to include it. Second, the voice would simply be of individuals wishing to keep the LANC on Sony cameras. Not just our niche market. I'm sure there are other small markets that could join forces. SkyTools would probably like to continue to sell their existing product line and they likely know of other groups that would be interested in joining the effort. Third, it can be easy. Now I'm not saying this is what we would have to use but here is an option. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/LANC It's just a tool. Not an essential tool but a nice one to have none-the-less. I for one would like to keep it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #17 August 27, 2007 If anybody doubts that online petitions can get results, I can attest to the fact that they do. I bought a Samsung LCD TV two months ago and it had a small video problem ("tearing") that tech support was totally unaware of despite the fact that almost every TV in this model range had it. If you did call tech support they'd attempt to replace either parts of your TV or the whole thing, which would not fix the problem. I found a forum where 100's of people were complaining of the problem and the fact that Samsung didn't recognize it as widespread. So I started a quick petition online, got tons of signatures from all those people, and in a few weeks Samsung recognized the problem publicly, and released a software fix for the TV that fixed the problem a few weeks later. That is a different situation, but it proves that online petitions can work. However, to get a lot of signatures you must promote the petition a lot, and once you get a lot of signatures you must write real letters to Sony informing them of the petition.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TallGuy 0 #18 August 27, 2007 Absolutely. Most companies assume that if someone has an issue with their product they will not say or do anything about it aside from possibly not making future purchases. As such actual feedback is very valuable to them. When you do say or do something about an issue they assume that you are representing several people who have not said anything at all. I'm sure this thread wouldn't get nearly enough attention on the problem. I'll forward this along to SkyTools. Maybe they will be willing to sponsor the effort and help get the right people involved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pincheck 0 #19 August 27, 2007 I would say sign up it can only help. Do nothing and fail to inform them then it will go. Make them aware that people want that function and it may make them reconsider Billy-Sonic Haggis Flickr-Fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #20 August 27, 2007 QuoteI'll forward this along to SkyTools. Maybe they will be willing to sponsor the effort and help get the right people involved. Post the link on some real photography forums (i.e. not DZ.com) that see high traffic. Some people will sign the petition even if they aren't sure they want LANC. A feature you don't use is still a feature available.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #21 August 28, 2007 Quote released a software fix HUGE difference, no production or distribution issues..Software issues are a simple matter of code, test, release.. I help do hundreds of software fixes a year...hardware? end of life hardware? lol... LANC is dead.... dont believe? just wait..but its your time... i DO suggest you look into the manufacturing involved and the number of camera's and camera applications for prosumers that have any requirement for it...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #22 August 28, 2007 Everything you said is true, but it doesn't negate the fact that petitions can make a difference, and it takes 20 seconds to sign. Who said they "don't believe" LANC is dead?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TallGuy 0 #23 August 29, 2007 Looks like we have a little support. ---An open letter from SkyTools--- Thank you for your e-mail and your efforts by starting the petition. We will try to support the petition the best way we can, beyond the skydiving community and to our industry contacts. Its true that Sony is equipping fewer of its camcorders with LANC than it used to. However all is not as bad as it looks. A fact that is not yet widely known in the public domain is that most of the newer Sony DVD and hard disk models are equipped with a LANC interface but its called REMOTE jack and has a black surface instead of the well known blue ring which we normally associate with the LANC interface. Even more confusing is that some Sony digital still cameras are also equipped with a remote jack called AE (not sure of the abbreviation). This jack responds to... yes LANC commands. Again, thank you for your e-mail and lets hope for a long life of LANC :-) Claes Hallberg SkyTools AB, Sweden ---End Letter--- 25 or so signatures so far. Some anonymous and duplicates which I think may be of little value. I've done some searching and there are a number of specialty niche market products that are still making use of LANC and forums that are discussing them. I think it might be nice to create a nice little banner that they can put on their websites to link to the petition? Any talented individuals want to volunteer? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #24 August 29, 2007 Quote I don 't know about that, I found my 2.00 photocell homemade "cam eye" worked real well for many years. I would even say the mirrors fell out of fashion long before the real "cam eyes" hit the market. I also find some what funny to see so many noobies not having a clue, these are/ were the same types who use to make fun of us guys who were using our 2.00 dollar radio shack homemade "photo cell cameyes" instead of running out to buy the 55.oo dollar ones. Now the cycle has come full circle and it's funny to sit back and watch so many, "what we do's". Bingo. I've said that "plug n' play" camera flyer are rank armatures!Soldering iron burns are the mark of a true videot!---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #25 August 29, 2007 Quote Soldering iron burns are the mark of a true videot! So permanent, life-long soldering burns indicate that I'm a true vidiot? All that said....I don't think that anyone can dispute that there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of technology as it rolls forward. Having LANC made a lot of things easier in the professional production world, and has some side bennies for skydiving. Fortunately they're keeping it available on the professional grade gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
