Demo W/Flag Main Canopy

[spectreflyer 0]

I am looking to purchase a main canopy to do demo's with and would like to carry a large American flag. Would like to know what the demo flag jumpers are using for their demo canopy. I am considering using the Spectre 230.

[quade 4]

How large a flag? 1000^2 ft? 2000^2 ft?

You might wanna give Jim Wallace a call and see what he recommends. Jim jumps a flag that's a bit over 2000^2 ft and is -quite- impressive. If you go HERE and click on the album of photos, then scroll down to photo 9044, you can see him test jumping a 1000^2 ft flag.

Even the 1000^2 ft flag isn't a trivial undertaking so you're doing the right thing by getting as much advice as you can.

Tell him I sent you.

BTW, you are aware of all the requirements to do demos -- right?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[fcajump 164]

Depends allot on your experience, size flag you jump, and how you have it rigged (in the lines, between risers and body, suspended from the canopy, or suspended from you...).

I jump several different flags, and fly a Spector 230 and it works great... But that means nothing until you also consider that I exit at >260lbs, my largest flag is ~100+ ft^2, have 900+ jumps, 200+ demos, and generally I am going into a Level 1 landing area.

For this combination, the Spector 230 is a great canopy for any conditions I would jump in. It sinks great, but can get back from a long spot. It also allows me the flexability to carry the additional weight (flag and suspension weight.)

If you are just starting out, I would point you to the book "Demo Details". Overall great resource, and has a very informative section on flags. (Including the notion that big flags are great, but often bigger is not better.)

I have been to a demo of >25000 people where a 4x6 US flag was clearly visible, and the 8x12 worked great. While I also want to get to fly larger, I would suggest working up to the big ones. There are many hazards along the way, better learned on smaller ones.

Last thought: you are however, on the right thought to look for a canopy to match your use. I've seen a zippy, highly loaded canopy that was noticibly impacted by the drag off a 3'x5' flag.

Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[mjosparky 4]

I jump flags of various sizes up to 600 sq. ft. My canopy is a 245 sq. ft. sharpchuter and the 600 sq. ft. flag is right at the limit of the canopy. I have not jumped a spectre but I would advise you start small, 10x15 and work up.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, your thoughts are headed in the correct direction with a Spectre 230.
I quit doing demos when I down-sized to a Sabre 150 and could no longer guarranttee a stand-up landing in a tight stadium.
Also a friend separated her pelvis landing a Stiletto 107 in a stadium a few weeks ago.
Finally, remember that guys jumping ginormous flags wear tandem rigs.

[quade 4]

Quote

Finally, remember that guys jumping ginormous flags wear tandem rigs.

Not always. Jim Wallace wears a huge bag on the front of his harness that makes it sort of look like a tandem set up, but it's really just a normal rig.

The photo shows his bag for the 1000^2 ft flag. The bag for the 2000^2 ft flag is about twice that volume, but if you do the math, that's only maybe 25% larger in all dimensions.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skycop 0]

I jump a 8x12 nylon flag it works great, looks good when it flies, and it was relatively cheap. I carry it in a belly mount hooked to my leg straps and harness. I had the flag rigged by an experienced demo jumper. The flag container is the bottom half of an old sweethog container. The only problem was finding the correct weight to use for the flag to fly properly. This size is good for the "casual" part-time demo jumper. I realize there is no such thing as a casual demo, but I hope you get what I mean.
As far as canopies go, for demo's, the bigger the better. I jump a 290 StartracII when I do any flag demos, no matter what size the landing area. Without the flag I've jumped my Triathlon 190, but only into very open landing areas.
It's my flag in the picture, but not me flying it, ( iwas kidnapped by Uncle Sam just prior to this demo).

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

I've seen a 2000 square foot union jack () being flown a couple of times, they used a tandem rig. When the weight of the flag hit the ground, you can see a massive difference in glide on the canopy.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[spectreflyer 0]

Jim,
I'm looking to start out on something in the neighborhood of an 8x10 to 10x12. My weight without gear is 170. The Spectre 210 is probably more in my exit weight range, I would like something I can grow into if I want to move up to a larger flag which requires more weight on the flag, so I may go with a 230 .
Where can I get the book "Demo Details"? Does USPA sell this or does the gear stores carry it?

Thanks for your advice and help!

[fcajump 164]

Demo Details: search www.paragear.com for Item: B1994 If you are going to do demo's, it is the best investment you can make.

Several ways to display a flag that size.

Most of us use a belly or seat bag of some ilk and suspend a weight at the bottom. Be VERY careful with suspended flags in that if they drag across something, you could have a bad day. Additionally, landing that way without good ground crew to catch the flag is a bad way to end your hard worked demo.

Flight Concepts, The Golden Knights, and Ed Cummings have each worked up systems to put the flag in the rigging. Makes things allot simpler after deployment. see sample photo at: http://www.cummingsrigging.com/Page_1x.html

Strongly recommend that you get with someone in your area with experience (if possible). If your in the DC area, drop me a line and I would be willing to show you what works for me.

Blue Ones,
Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[mjosparky 4]

It is not a good idea to carry any demo gear behind you. It is best carried infront where you can keep an eye on it.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

When I worked at Rigging Innovations I sewed up a couple of specialized demo rigs for the Canadian Army Skyhawks demo team. Talk about a special project!
I started with Telesis F+18 containers big enough to hold two large main canopies. Then we added a 3-Ring riser near your butt (similar to Vector II tandem) then some extra internal flaps and all the associated handles.
The rigs were officially designed for intentional cutaways, but it would have been just as easy to install a large flag.
In retrospect it would have been easier to start with an old tandem rig.

[mjosparky 4]

Rob,
I am not sure I understand what you are saying, it is hard for me to visualize what it looks like. In any case I still feel anything carried on a demo should be in front of the jumper.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[spectreflyer 0]

Anyone have any experience flying the flag from the main canopy lines? I think this would be safer, less danger of snagging the weight or flag on an obsticle, plus you need a ground crew to catch the flag when landing. A jumper with the Golden Knight's told me they used a simple process (bag sewn to bottom skin of canopy). Has anyone seen the Army's set-up, up close and personal? I think I would like to use the Army's set-up, but I have to see one first or find someone who can rig it for me. Ed Cummings wanted about $1500 bucks to do this for me.

[mjosparky 4]

I have seen canopy tail pockets used several times but have not been able to get close enough to see the rigging. The problem I see with this method is you are limited on you flag size.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[iowa 0]

If you talked to Ed Cummings you probably got the whole story. When I talked to him about it the rigging it didn't sound too easy at all. Plus there are a lot of ways to screw it up.

It's probably worth the money. I just couldn't afford it so am still hanging a flag from a harness/bag w/ weights.

Some of the early methods to rig a flag in the lines were causing about a 30% malfunction rate. Too high for me.

Keith

''Always do sober what you said you would do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.'' - Ernest Hemingway

[skycop 0]

Flight Concepts will set up a demo canopy with a flag pocket. I'm not sure how much extra it is. I've jumped one and it's pretty cool but, I think a larger flag suspended from the jumper looks a little better.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[alan 1]

I put a caribiner on the top grommet of the flag and snap a loop of bungee cord that has a foot loop on it onto the bottom grommet. Pack it into a fanny pack that hangs off my belly with the biner and loop on the top. After opening, I take the biner in one hand and the loop in the other, carefully letting the flag trail behind me in the process. Snap the top biner into the rapide link, the lines or even a dive loop and place the bungeed foot loop over your toes. Just prior to landing, you can kick the foot loop off and the flag will trail behind you, off the ground. Works well with flags that are not over 6' tall.

alan

[spectreflyer 0]

Jim Wallace is going to sell me a flag package like this set-up. $300 bucks for the flag, rigging and video on how to use it. I need to start with something small and gain some experience before moving up to something larger and more complicated, such as a flag hanging below me.
Thanks for the advice!