lesson learned

[dragon2 2]

Do not allow people you don't know on a tandemjump

Even if they have >1000 jumps like this guy.

Lesson learned

http://www.12000ft.com/video/ahem.wmv

His lesson, no, he thinks the jump went great.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[BlueSBDeath 2]

Yea, that sucked

Jump ##'s are not a real good judge of ability, I know cuzz I f-up all the time and hear about it!!!

Stay safe,

Arvel

[johnboy 0]

Dang!

How old is that passenger, btw? Looks like a kid.

[dragon2 2]

The kid's 10

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[jimmytavino 16]

allowing the lurker.... not so good # 1

no head gear on either the TM or Passenger,,,,
while allowing a lurker to come along...not so good # 2...

work of the videographer ??? Very Good !!!

j t

[oldgit 0]

I learned that lesson a while ago
http://www.skydivenow.org/temp/near%20miss.MPG

I was on camera for this one but it learned me to be very picky who I let jump when I am the TM

[dragon2 2]

The more jumps I get the more I get why you need so many f** jumps and the SKILLS to jump with tandems.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[DSE 5]

Amen.
Twice I've seen very close calls w/tandems, and both times it left me resolved to never allow lurkers unless I know the person lurking very, very well.
That said...I'm also amazed at how some DZ's will allow low-number jumpers that are popular people to jump with tandems. Specifically, we have a kid who is a really great kid, practicing camera slot or chasing tandems at 75 jumps. He doesn't wear a camera, but it leaves me shaking my head in wonder.

[BlueSBDeath 2]

NOW THAT was scary!!!

[PharmerPhil 0]

Last year, my home DZ implemented a rule whereby non-staff members are not allowed on tandem jumps. Off the record, this rule is waiverable by the tandem master (and vidiot), but we don't advertise that fact. Our general feeling is that it doesn't add anything but risk to the tandem passenger, and makes for a much poorer video (usually). If it is someone we know, and we know they won't f*#% it up, we sometimes allow it. But when we are uncomfortable, we can just point to the rule.

BTW, this rule really pissed off a long time jumper who used to bring a lot of tandems to the DZ (and lurk them) and has since taken his business elsewhere. But in truth, he was one of the worst (most dangerous) offenders even though he had thousands of jumps, and many years experience. It as a tough call, but in the end, we decided on the side of safety and the tandem passenger's total jumping experience.

[DSE 5]

And what if they *are* a staff member? Say, a full-time packer that has 70 jumps, who wants to practice camera slot before he starts wearing a helmet....do you let this guy go or not?

[Fast 0]

Quote

And what if they *are* a staff member? Say, a full-time packer that has 70 jumps, who wants to practice camera slot before he starts wearing a helmet....do you let this guy go or not?

To me, a packer isn't a staff member. To me staff members are: Tandem Masters, Instructors and Videographers. Everyone else just works at the DZ.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DSE 5]

I agree....a packer isn't a staff member. At our DZ, neither are videographers. Unless you're an AFF instructor, TI, etc, you aren't staff.
That said, am I the only one that has an issue with this kid (regardless of his skills) either chasing or taking camera slot with tandems?

[monkycndo 0]

Quote

That said, am I the only one that has an issue with this kid (regardless of his skills) either chasing or taking camera slot with tandems?

Earlier in my jumps numbers, I'd say let the TI decide. After seeing some close calls and shitty flying by newby videographers, I now agree with the 500 jump minimum as a place to start. And this is from someone who just added a camera to his helmet.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[PharmerPhil 0]

I hope it goes without saying that it is always up to the Tandem intructor whether or not someone comes along (and hopefully the videographer as well). The times we do allow a lurker, it is always a joint decision by the Instructor and videographer. In your case, I think you could simply tell the 70-jump wonder that he doesn't have the experience/skills/license/whatever. For us it has been more difficult politically to say that to someone with thousands of jumps (who may still not have the skills) and is a regular customer. I also hope no one "practices" camera flying with students.

In this case we have one small advantage in Massachusetts which is the requirement that anyone jumping with a student have a waiver from the Massachusetts Aeronautical Commission (whooppee, our own little state FAA). Truth be told, there are very easy to get (and free), but it does take some forethought and weeks of waiting, which rules out a last minute request to lurk.

[DSE 5]

In my case, I allow him to chase, with the understanding that he's never to come within 100 feet of me or the tandem, and that he be within my line of sight at all times. However, the TI's don't seem to mind him being in their face when there isn't a camera slot flying.
After seeing so many of these "oops" vids, I'm rethinking my approach.

[PharmerPhil 0]

One thing the DZ should be thinking about (IMHO) is "what does this add to the tandem student's experience?" Other than increased risk. The student is paying for the jump, and everything should be focused on what they get for their dollar. I would argue strongly that jumping out of a plane, experiencing freefall, and seeing the world from that perspective is enough for any first time jumper. Adding someone else in freefall (other than a camera person) just adds confusion and danger. Especially if it is someone they don't even know, and who isn't providing a service (like a video of their skydive). Why would anyone think that having the student focus on some 70-jump wonder packer who they don't even know, somehow makes the skydive more "cool?" Most times, people want to lurk simply for their own benefit, at the expense of, and risk to, the student who is paying the bill.

Sorry for rambling, but this issue is a pet peeve of mine.

[VideoFly 0]

There are several instructors that I have jumped with and filmed hundreds of times that I will film as they jump with tandems. We dirt dive, discuss, and rehearse these jumps. They are well aware of where they need to be at all times and are always there. If they dock on a student, they add a special quality to the jump and the student leaves with the unique experiences of skydiving and doing quality RW. Until they track far away behind the student within my view at 7,000 feet, they know where to be and where I will be to get certain shots. If things look precarious, we all know that they will leave and where they will go. Other than that, no lurkers on my jump. I have been hosed too many times with burbles, collisions, and disappearing skydivers. Either they don’t jump with me or someone else takes the video. I don’t care if they get mad at me (and they do).