What to do with your helmet on takeoff?

[Skydave103 0]

Now this is for filming students not a jump going out with your friends.
Had an issue this w/e at 1 of our 2 Atlanta DZ's. Seems the "pilot" didn't think a helmet strapped to my chest (using a 1" nylon strap) was good enough. But I have been using the same setup for the last 4 years and there has never been a problem before or at any DZ that I have used this setup.

btw this is a king air. Small windows, tight quarters.

Let me know what you do.

Dave

LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

[DSE 5]

You left out other options that don't include the chest strap or being on your head.
Depending on which suit I'm wearing, either a strap that goes through helmet and cheststrap, or through the entirely sewn swoop cord loops on my suit. Either way, my understanding is that the helmet needs to be secured, so that doesn't say a chest strap vs on your head vs tied down to a seatbelt vs thick nylon swoop cord vs tiedown that attaches to your body or rig.

[stratostar 5]

Well seeing how you don't have the choice of what I do, and have done at SDA in the past, that is I use the nylon strap that is used to help hold down my video camera (or use the bone of my FTP), is attached to my chest strap in order to keep my helmet and still camera from flying around the cabin and I hold my PC 100 in my hand using a the strap to keep the camera from flying about the cabin & I film the T.O. if doing a TDM or AFF, other jumps the video stays mounted to the helmet and the helmet is on my chest strap via the bone.

I have done both types of securing in that K.A. with the owner at the wheel, no problem.

I have also been to a dz this summer where the dude running the show is a BOD member on the S&T commitee and is the DZ's S&TA and the regional D as well, and was sitting right next to all the camera guys who didn't bother to strap their camera helmets on the head or to a seat belt or to the chest strap, or any other means of securing them, they held them up to film out the windows ( FTP's with stills and trv's), so I guess it all depends on where you jump as to the rules that are followed. If you don't like it, well you know the deal.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[quade 4]

Generally speaking you should have it attached to something besides just holding it in your hands. In an actual crash, you will NOT be able to hold on to it no matter how strong you think you are.

Chest strap is probably ok.
Seat Belt is much better but you probably can't get any take off footage that way at all.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[peckerhead 0]

On my head ready to exit. Only take it off after seat belts come off.

[parachutist 2]

Dave,

I wear it til seat belt is removed, as you've seen me do on the plane. I prefer being able to look around and see others wearing their helmets on takeoff because we've had enough locals recently who see themselves as being exempt to the rule of "Secure your helmet". If I bring it up that it needs to be secured they'll act as though they just forgot, but really they're longing for that takeoff shot so badly that they'll hold the camera up against the door, with the helmet attached to nothing. Personally I get tired of their crap, so if the pilot decided everyone needs to wear their helmets I'm all for it. It's easy verification.

Honestly, I think you're such an incredible freeflyer that the takeoff shot really shouldn't matter to you. Exit shots like yours out of the king air are what I'm hoping to achieve one of these days. Why do you think the takeoff really matters when you have so much other good footage to include in your videos?

Was this dispute also part of the weight/balance argument?

Chris

[Cashmanimal 0]

I always secure it to the seatbelt. I nestle it in on the side of the bench in the king a, as I just use stock footage for take-off. In the cessna, I secure it to the seatbelt/pilots seat.

I like having it out of the way as well as secure. First, because i don't want it rolling anywhere and causing unnecessary damage, but also because I hate the idea of a chest strap. I understand the concept of keeping everyone inside the plane safe in case of a crash.... but also, I would prefer to not have a face full of camera helmet in case a crash ever doers occur, regardless of how safe everybody else is.

It's all fun and until someone loses an eye... then it's just a game to find the eye

[BlueSBDeath 2]

I do the same as Peckerhead, helmet on for take off and emergency exit, until seat belts come off.

Then I control the helmet!!!

Arvel

BSBD...........Its all about Respect,

USPA#-7062, FB-2197, Outlaw 499

[jimmytavino 16]

i was always taught that if you HAVE headgear.. then you WEAR it,,, secured,,,, for take off..... can't get much simpler....

IF you have to,,,,, you should be able to record,,, while it's on your head......

after seatbelts come off and the plane is trimmed and climbing,, there is plenty of time for either hand holding the whole assembly, or removing the camera from the helmet,,, to get some good "in the plane" footage, close-ups, novelty shots, etc... ( Just be sure to zoom back out to wide angle,,, if you are in the back of a plane, and you zoomed to the TM and Student, who might be further up the cabin,,, near the pilot...)

the idea is to prevent the situation, where anything is flying around the cabin,,,, missle-like,,,, in the rare event of an emergency..
seatbelts save lives....helmets which are worn,,,protect heads ..

I does bug me to see camera people hand holding anything during take off....and despite the desire to do so,,, I resist out of consideration to all those on board...

because while this sport gives us lots of leeway, for "self-expression" and "doing our own thing".. that is not a license to flaunt safety recommendations.....
jmy

[Skydave103 0]

Quote

we've had enough locals recently who see themselves as being exempt to the rule of "Secure your helmet". If I bring it up that it needs to be secured they'll act as though they just forgot, but really they're longing for that takeoff shot so badly that they'll hold the camera up against the door, with the helmet attached to nothing. Personally I get tired of their crap, so if the pilot decided everyone needs to wear their helmets I'm all for it. It's easy verification.

I also will bust people for not securing their helmet, I believe they should be secure and mine is ALWAYS attached. I haven't deviated from that in years.

Quote

Honestly, I think you're such an incredible freeflyer that the takeoff shot really shouldn't matter to you. Exit shots like yours out of the king air are what I'm hoping to achieve one of these days. Why do you think the takeoff really matters when you have so much other good footage to include in your videos?

The take off footage is a nice bonus for them because they cant see it and it gives them a chance to relive that first moment when they leave the ground. Thanks for the compliment.

[AndyMan 7]

I only know three options:

Put it on your head and secure it, secure it to your chest strap, or secure it to your seatbelt.

If someone wants to film a takeoff, as long as their helmet is secure it's ok. Holding your helmet in your hands may very well kill someone.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[Skydave103 0]

Quote

I only know three options:

Put it on your head and secure it, secure it to your chest strap, or secure it to your seatbelt._Am

What is wrong with an additional strap that connects to chest strap and your helmet?

[stratostar 5]

Quote

What is wrong with an additional strap that connects to chest strap and your helmet?

Nothing, as long as it is strong enough to hold in a crash. What's wrong with using canned footage for T.O. and alti shots and other "fillers" leaving only the pre jump interview, one or two shots of their face in the plane, the jump, landing, post interview.

I haven't shot a take off in a longtime, I have a number of nice ones I use as canned footage. If I go to a dz where they don't have "house" editing system and I don't haul mine with me, then I might shoot T.O. and do it as I posted above, with my helmet strapped to my chest strap, via the bone or the built in "granny strap" for the video camera and I use the strap of the camera wrapped around my hand so the camera can't go flying free. I don't like to use seat belts to hold the helmet in tightly packed AC's because I don't want others sitting on, bumping, stepping on, my cameras or sight, with it attached to my chest strap by the bone (I do it that way 90% of time) the helmet is upside down with the cameras resting in my lap and I can protect it from the movements of others.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[azureriders 0]

helmet with still fastened securely to a seat belt, or even better the nylon loop on the emergency door on the right side of the otter. Video removed from helmet and hand held with a safety strap fastening it to my jumpsuit sleave. This 1) gives me the most freedom of movement for take off shots, being that I dont have a huge helmet in my hand; 2) secures all my componets incase of a crash; 3) keeps me from dropping my camera out the door being that I keep this set up after seat belts are released and door is open, maybe filming a h&P.

I am jumping an otter, not a KA but I think this should work in most any plane. I do like sitting next to the big door though, for take off and inflight filming alike.

[Bill_K 0]

Quote

even after I turned around he still wouldn't take off. And when I am facing forward i have more weight forward than if I were sitting down. He (the mediocre pilot) has a problem with me anyway. He would always be bitching about something.

I was not there and on the plane so I won't comment to what happened on the plane... I will remind though, who ever the pilot is that is flying he/she is the PIC.

Per the FAA regulations he/she is in charge from the moment those engines start turning for the purpose of moving that plane with the intent of flying it until they stop turning when the plane is parked back in it's spot. I'm not defending anybody's actions one way or the other, just saying that when we signed the wavers at (insert any DZ here) and get on that plane we are voluntarily placing ourselves under the PIC's direct control and are his/her responsibility until we exit that plane. If something happens it's his/her license that the FAA is going to come after, not mine. I am speaking as both a fellow skydiver and a commercial / CFII here.
BK

[Laszloimage 0]

There's one thing I wouldn't do.
I would NEVER put on my camera helmet during the take off.
Imagine what would happen during a crash. That extra pound or two would become lot havier caused by the G forces and my head would be just torn off from my neck.
I don't think to wear a camera helmet on my head during take off is a smart choice... I try to keep my head attached to my body even if the plane crashes.
-Laszlo-

[Skydave103 0]

It seems that everyone is doing things differently.

IMHO Holding your helmet/camera without any strap is a bad idea and I have never agreed with that. Even if you are holding your video camera with the hand strap attached. In the event of a crash you would not be able to hold the camera. There has to be some security.

Is there someone here that can figure out the G-forces and how much a camera would weigh in a crash. A 1lb camera would weigh x lbs in a 5G crash etc.

LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

[Dokeman 0]

heres my thinking.. Now matter how you secure it, the seatbelt, nylon strap, or just wearing it, the plastic ratchet strap buckles on the chin cups of most helmets are probably the weakest part. I know the nlon strap your using and it also has a plastic buckle. Now, i think the plastic buckles/ratchet strap addapters are plenty strong enough for the intedned purposes, but I still see that being the weakest part. But obviously on a FTP you can go through the chin peice and there is no buckle there. Mabey find and old seatbelt, take the metal buckels off and just sew it closed into a big loop and see if that would work.

[quade 4]

Quote

On my head ready to exit. Only take it off after seat belts come off.

The issue I have with wearing the helmet during takeoff is that in a crash scenario, it's more likely that it will snap your neck than save your skull.

Camera helmets are camera HOLDERS, not protective devices.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Quote

Is there someone here that can figure out the G-forces and how much a camera would weigh in a crash. A 1lb camera would weigh x lbs in a 5G crash etc.

The math is pretty simple; a 10 pound camera helmet will "weigh" 50 pounds in a 5G crash. I certainly would never consider 5G to be the upper limit on a crash though.

The normal aircraft seats are designed to survive up to 9G (crap assed bench seating we typically see in a Twin Otter; your guess is as good as mine says maybe 4G) and the human body may survive up to 20G if aligned normally (which it won't be in a skydiving aircraft accident). Beyond 20G body parts have a tendancy to depart the body.

Wearing your camera helmet in a crash is simply asking for your neck to be broken.

Holding it in your hands is futile and it will smash into someone else.

Securing it with a seat belt is your best option, but the chest strap is a reasonable compromise, in my opinion.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skydave103 0]

Quote

Quote

On my head ready to exit. Only take it off after seat belts come off.

The issue I have with wearing the helmet during takeoff is that in a crash scenario, it's more likely that it will snap your neck than save your skull.

Camera helmets are camera HOLDERS, not protective devices.

I can agree with that. no need to have 8-10 extra lbs on your head. It's bad enough at deployment time.

Quote

I know the nylon strap your using and it also has a plastic buckle. Now, i think the plastic buckles/ratchet strap addapters are plenty strong enough for the intedned purposes, but I still see that being the weakest part.

The strap could use an upgraded buckle, maybe a RSL and stainless 3 ring piece. But the nylon strap it's self would hold up.

LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

[Dokeman 0]

why not eliminate the buckle and just have a solid strap?

[Fast 0]

Quote

Quote

Is there someone here that can figure out the G-forces and how much a camera would weigh in a crash. A 1lb camera would weigh x lbs in a 5G crash etc.

The math is pretty simple; a 10 pound camera helmet will "weigh" 50 pounds in a 5G crash. I certainly would never consider 5G to be the upper limit on a crash though.

The normal aircraft seats are designed to survive up to 9G (crap assed bench seating we typically see in a Twin Otter; your guess is as good as mine says maybe 4G) and the human body may survive up to 20G if aligned normally (which it won't be in a skydiving aircraft accident). Beyond 20G body parts have a tendancy to depart the body.

Wearing your camera helmet in a crash is simply asking for your neck to be broken.

Holding it in your hands is futile and it will smash into someone else.

Securing it with a seat belt is your best option, but the chest strap is a reasonable compromise, in my opinion.

I agree. I have filmed a couple different take offs with a light plane and my camera attached to a seat belt. Since then I just use all canned takeoffs in my tandem videos and I secure my helmet to my chest strap. I don't like the weight on my neck really at all. I do what I can to not wear the helmet as much as I can. The worst that is going to happen on my chest strap is that the camera bashes me in the face. Thats my risk to take in a crash and I see it as a lesser risk to having my neck tore off.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Skydave103 0]

Quote

why not eliminate the buckle and just have a solid strap?

I wouldn't want to undo my chest strap in flight. And attaching it to the seat belt might make it useless.

LifeshouldNOTbeajourneytothegravewithawellpreservedbody,buttskidinsideways,cigarinone hand,martiniintheother,bodythoroughlyused upandscreaming:"WOO HOO!! What a ride!!!"

[jimmytavino 16]

" is simply asking for your neck to be broken"


hmmmm valid point, i guess...
my logic is that the protection ( to myself AND everyone in the cabin) afforded by wearing it...may outweigh the 'risk' of the extra G's...
should a problem come up.....

but now i dunno.....

Not sure what the forces are like when comparing, a slammer opening @ 125 mph.. to a flared emergency aircraft touchdown at 50 60 or 70 MPH.... I've endured many such openings and so far ZERO such landings...

if time exists, to brace for such a landing, however, i think my hands would be solidly ON the helmet, adding some degree ( i hope ) of protection from having my head fall off.....

What's worse???? that scenario, ( braced for touchdown) or crashing with No head protection at all... AND a helmet flapping around on a chest strap....or harness or seatbelt...
I suppose the size shape and strength of a persons neck, shoulders and arms, may factor in, as well.....some are more solid than others,,,
anyway
thanks for the 'food for thought'...
aw hell...... maybe I'll just leave the cameras on the ground!!!
.. cause now i'm not sure what's the best idea....
will be following this thread. for sure.
thanks all,,, for the thought provoking comments...

j t
a 3914
d 12122