upndownshop 0 #1 October 23, 2007 Can you experts tell me how large an average tandem video file would be? then the average amount of space for digital pics and how many you normally shoot? So I am looking for total space required on a DVD for video and photos. Any help would be appreciated.. J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 October 23, 2007 Most tandem video at 8-10 minutes in length will probally be encoded at somewhere between 6-8Mbps so thats ~450 megs in size. If you have a leader on it then add in another 50-60meg. Figure about 1.6-1.7 meg per photo. I tend to give out 75-115 photos per jump. Thats another 200-250 megs. Total size? Around a gig would be enough space. Good news is that DVD's hold 4.7 gig so you could find a higher bit rate encoder to really push the quality at the expence of more disk space used.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #3 October 23, 2007 So then a 1gig usb flash drive would be plenty? Would there be an advantage to using flash drives rather than DVD's to hand to the customers? Would flash drives be an advantage to camera men, less work, maybe no re-burns of DVD, etc... Any other pro's or con's to flash drives. I am playing with an idea so any input would be great, and thanks for your help thus far. J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #4 October 23, 2007 QuoteSo then a 1gig usb flash drive would be plenty? Would there be an advantage to using flash drives rather than DVD's to hand to the customers?I would imagine the overall cost would be quite a bit higher... additionally the advantage of handing a DVD to a customer is that they can stick the disk into a DVD player just about anywhere and show off their jump whereas with a flash drive some computer skills are necessary. but that's just my opinion/thoughts on that idea...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #5 October 23, 2007 I see zero advantaces of using a flash drive. Even with complete custom labeling I am paying less then $.75 a DVD and that is on fairly high end DVD's. There is no way you can get 1 gig flash drives for any where near the pricing of DVD. The advantage to DVDis they can drop the DVD in any DVD player anywhere and watch their video. In order to see a video on a flash drive you are needing to have a computer. Also flash drives are super easy to lose, I've lose 3 of them in the last 3 years. There is no real way to archive the flash drive, at least on a disk you can put the disk away, the drive is just too easy to loose. I give out photos on a seperate CD since the photo kiosks at Wal-mat and such only accept CD and not DVD as a meduim for them to print thier photos from unless I gave them the memory card too.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #6 October 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo then a 1gig usb flash drive would be plenty? Would there be an advantage to using flash drives rather than DVD's to hand to the customers?I would imagine the overall cost would be quite a bit higher... additionally the advantage of handing a DVD to a customer is that they can stick the disk into a DVD player just about anywhere and show off their jump whereas with a flash drive some computer skills are necessary. but that's just my opinion/thoughts on that idea... Thats what I am looking for, thoughts etc... which those two I have considered. The cost is one I can work with, the convenience of playing is the one I cant help. But I keep thinking, it wont scratch, or the possibility of not playing on certain dvd players, and easier to share photos with friends etc..... If it the video was put on the flash player, could it be opened with any player? Would it have to be saved in some generic file type to ensure that, sort of like anyone can open a .jpg?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #7 October 23, 2007 It would depend a lot. What codec are us using to encode it? Since its not going to be for a DVD you could get anything you wanted to but then depending on what it is it might need a special player. Depending on what you are encoding it to/with the render time might be 2-3x the length of the video. That means its a 5 minute transfer time to your templete, 3-5 to adjust the time line etc then 20-30 for it to render to the PC then you need to transfer to the flash drive. If you have a DVD player in the last 7 years the play rate is pushing 98%, thats a tiny thing to worry about anymore. CD the photos, everyone has a CD player in their computer or can use the Walmart photo lab.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velocityphoto 0 #8 October 24, 2007 I try to remember to ask students if they have a flash drive to load there photo's on to save a lot of burning time. A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #9 October 24, 2007 Bear in mind that you can't really go past 8.5Mbps and maintain compatibility with many DVD players and duplicated media. Keep your bitrates no higher than 8.5Mbps, which is plenty for most any kind of vid you watch. Most Hollywood DVDs are encoded at approx 6Mbps, but of course there are other differences, such as quality of source, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #10 October 24, 2007 Flash drives are way too easy to accidentaly delete and/or format. How many people came to the DZ asking for a new VHS tape of their tandem jump because they/spouse taped As the World Turns over it? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnskydiver688 0 #11 March 24, 2009 I decided to resurrect this thread as I have some new questions. As flash drive prices have dropped substantially and more media is getting viewed online, would it be reasonable to use a Flash drive for video distribution? Maybe not for tandems due to the sheer volume, but how about AFF or FFC's? For AFF you could put the first jump video and then add more jumps later. Also, if you already charging for video why not just include the cost of the drive in the cost of doing video? Then you get faster output times and they get a flash drive out of the deal. Then they can decide what to do with the video files. Burn them, post them to social networking sites etc. At this point you are not avoiding seeing your tandem videos on YouTube just because they are on DVD. This approach could also be used for FFC's. Since much of video is moving to NLE seems this would cut down the time to create videos. Just a thought and I am open to the idea that it can't be financially viable or even make good sense. MalcolmSky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #12 March 24, 2009 >would it be reasonable to use a Flash drive for video distribution? Biggest problem there will be play-back-ability. Many students will not have the computer or the technical know-how to play back the video, and thus you'll spend some time either making alternates for them or doing tech support for them. Secondary to that would be cost. You're still going to pay around $5 for a 2GB FLASH drive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #13 March 24, 2009 Dunno, depends on the jumper. I'm certain that with most I'd be ending up answering all kind of technical questions about the video files: why they don't play straight away on this and that dvd player, can I do a short editing course, can I give them the files in a different format than i shot it, plus getting asked to burn to dvd anyway for easy viewing, no thanx. For some jumpers however it's a whole different story: they bring their own camera, harddrive, memory card, usb stick or dvd-rw and they want to have the raw footage of their jump to edit and play with themselves. Sure they can have it like that, lets them have their fun and saves me work editing and burning. Done that for a few tandem jumpers as well, if they ask and i have the time and it doesn't cost me anything extra (like a tape). With wingsuit students and the like they get the choice between either raw footage or a nice edited DVD Most teams want raw footage anyway of course, usually dumped to a laptop these days. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnskydiver688 0 #14 March 24, 2009 I don't know it just seems like a waste for an AFF jumper or FFC student getting back from a coach jump with video to get a DVD with a 5-6 minute video on it. You ask them we can keep the disc un-finalized so you can add more video later, but that means you won't be able to play it most DVD players. Student: Oh might as well finalize it so I can watch it. Next day they have get another coach jump with video. Can I get it on DVD? Ok, so another DVD burned with 20% of the space used on it. Do you want it finalized or open so more footage can be added? Might as well finalize it so I can watch it. There must be a better way. Also you could include written lessons, instructional information, product information, etc. on the Flash Drive. Tell the student at the beginning that you have this package available. Give it as an option. Also it is an incentive to get more video if you then reduce future video costs for a period of time if they got this package. Again I am just thinking out loud.Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #15 March 24, 2009 I'm not technical savvy, but I know we use DVDs to record AFF videos. I record them as they occur on the same disc and give it to the student that day. He/she can watch them and when he/she comes back they bring the disc and I can record more jumps on it. I don't "finalize" the disc. But I can easily watch the jumps as "chapters" on the disc at any point during the progression. As for the original topic, I still do not see any advantage for flash drives. For the same reasons already posted, I see them as a disadvantage.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #16 March 24, 2009 QuoteI'm not technical savvy, but I know we use DVDs to record AFF videos. I record them as they occur on the same disc and give it to the student that day. He/she can watch them and when he/she comes back they bring the disc and I can record more jumps on it. I don't "finalize" the disc. But I can easily watch the jumps as "chapters" on the disc at any point during the progression. As for the original topic, I still do not see any advantage for flash drives. For the same reasons already posted, I see them as a disadvantage. I don't think you can watch a disc on another machine until it is finalized. We're trying to get away from video tape for students as well and the flash drive idea has come up as an option. So please folks, keep thinking out loud. The only other option I've been able to think of is where you keep the student files in their own directory on a hard drive, then add the new clip and burn a new dvd each time they come out. That might work for a small DZ but I don't know if it's feasible for larger ones. I know that as a student I really appreciated being able to watch my videos numerous times between weekends. I also know that I probably wouldn't want to keep track of 8 DVD's for 8 jumps (or more). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #17 March 24, 2009 I know for a fact that I've given students their disc, they go home and put them on Youtube, then bring them back and I record more on them. I do finalize each chapter after recording. I still don't know how it works, but I know it can be done.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnskydiver688 0 #18 March 24, 2009 I think I might explore idea when i begin offering video with my coaching. I am thinking of also including a stand alone program on the drive that acts as a simple logbook. The student could enter basic information and a description of the jump and then save it as either a .txt file or integrate it with a database. The txt files could be uploaded to a blog or something like that. This would provide an alternative if the student didn't or couldn't invest in a digital altimeter and a more thorough program such as Paralog. I really like the idea of integrating instructional information in with the drive. Canopy information, rigging information, information on different disciplines, links to online resources, etc. I think in order for the idea of introducing flash drives to get any sort of support it needs to support more than just video. With first jumps the student has to wait for their first issue of parachutist, why not give them a tool that they can learn from the first day they jump? They get home from their first jump, still amped up, they plug in the drive and can watch their jump, fill out their own personal log book, upload it to their facebook, myspace, wordpress, etc. or just keep it in their own records, and then they can check out the instructional information. They can read about what they need to think about for their next jump, start learning about gear. If they aren't quite satisfied they can go to the links and search the huge volume of online resources. The dropzone or manufacturers could include coupons for the students. Edit: Sorry Spot if I have wandered a bit...Sky Canyon Wingsuiters Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #19 March 25, 2009 I think it's a relevant topic, and in spite of some of the responses, I think it's a very explorable idea. Wish I'd thought of it. I can get Transcend 2GB drives in bulk for about 2.00... Store either MP4 or MPEG 2 (or even MPEG 1) and virtually everything can play it. Heck, include a Quicktime installer if they can't play mp4...because an mp4 at 640 x 360 will play on almost all iPods, plus any computer. Plus can be straight upload to Youtube Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #20 March 25, 2009 J, Now days does this thing really matter anymore??? I try to help you but I think this storage issue is going away. We have to invest money to our gear no matter what. But the storage became the least problem. I recommend a TB range raid configured external hard drive. and once awhile back up all your files on an optical disc (like bluray... 25GB per disc). The answers to the your specific questions are: My tandem videos are about 6-7 min long. (HQ mode which is abou 8.5 Mb/sec as DSE said already) I hand out about 30-40 stills 600Kb-1.2Mb each (including pre jump group shots...) -Laszlo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blazetailman 0 #21 March 25, 2009 I just delivered 2 aff vid jumps to a student who requested it on a thumb drive. I'm looking into this type of delivery model for my coaching purposes. It makes a lot of sense to me especially with the new solid state cameras. I'm working to repurpose an older computer for debrifing purposes. Tandems will require a little more planning. I think handing a dvd is a simpler package.www.canopyflightcenter.com www.skydivesac.com www.guanofreefly.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
