Canon ZR850 vs Sony DCR-HC38 for Skydiving?

[brettski74 0]

I'm looking at buying my first camcorder. Based on my research so far, I think I'm looking for something like a Sony DCR-HC38, but reading the comparisons with other cameras on camcorderinfo.com, it sounds like the Canon ZR850 might give better bang for the buck given that it has a higher resolution CCD and can shoot widescreen footage - think slightly more future-proof. The question is how well it will work for skydiving. I know that some of the newer canon camera with optical image stabilisation don't work too well in freefall, but this one still has electronic stabilistation. Ease of finding a suitable box to mount on a helmet is another thing I need to consider.

Is anyone using a Canon ZR850 or similar Canon camcorder? If so, are you happy with it's performance and durability? What helmet and/or box/mount are you using for it? Is it compatible with any standard boxes out there? I was leaning towards something from Cookie composites, and the specs suggest that it's very close in size to the HC38, so maybe it will just fit inside an HC38 box?

Blues.

[velocityphoto 0]

Buy the sony , sony rules the skydiving world .

Just found this ! This is an awesome camera for skydiving ! I shoot a pc 120 currently and just bought an hc-1 hdv for my other helmet .

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=54991;d=1

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[brettski74 0]

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Buy the sony , sony rules the skydiving world .

I'm aware that Sony has huge market share in the skydiving world, almost to the extent that they're the only manufacturer in it, but I was more looking for reasons why.

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Just found this ! This is an awesome camera for skydiving ! I shoot a pc 120 currently and just bought an hc-1 hdv for my other helmet .

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=54991;d=1

Why are the prices so high, though? I understand that people probably paid a lot more for these cameras when they were new, but a PC110 is a 6 year old camera. I can buy a brand new camera with similar features (eg. DCR-HC38) for around $300 brand new with a full manufacturer's warranty. The only thing I can think of that the PC110 has that most of these newer cameras don't have is the LANC port. Are there other reasons why these older cameras are going for such prices that I'm not aware of?

[stratostar 5]

Look dude, if you want to be a cheap ass then go ahead and buy the 300 dollar camera with a MFG-WAR. and when it don't hold up to the abuse and enviroments of skydiving and you have to go buy a new camera, don't come crying here about it!

If you really want to know why sony is the pick of 99% of skydiving videographers and why they hold their value, 1. do a search first!, 2. go buy one and use it and found out why for yourself.

I mean all the people in the many post on here about sonys have a damn good reason why they say that, also open this month parachutist mag if you have one to page 44.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 5]

LANC is probably how Sony really gained a foothold in the skydiving world, although Sony was a very early supporter of skydiving as a corporation. There are a couple SONY logo'd parachutes floating around in Parkridge, New Jersey (rounds), and some very old photos of monster Sony-branded lenses at early competitions.
Sony makes most of the DV tape transports out there; they are tough. Sony also has had good stabilization for a long, long time. Canon is a relative newcomer to the video camera game by comparison.
Panasonic and JVC don't offer LANC, and Panasonic has never been known for their tough drives, only tough laptops. JVC has never been known for their camera quality, IMO, either at the high or low end.

[brettski74 0]

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Look dude, if you want to be a cheap ass then go ahead and buy the 300 dollar camera with a MFG-WAR. and when it don't hold up to the abuse and enviroments of skydiving and you have to go buy a new camera, don't come crying here about it!

If you wanted to say that you think the PC series of cameras were more rugged than the HC series, then you could have just said that. On the other hand, do a search on here and you'll find that a bunch of people are flying HC3x and HC4x series cameras and have put hundreds of jumps on them. Look hard enough and you might even find one or two posts from people flying Canons. That's about what I expect out of my first camera - a few hundred jumps. If I get serious about video and out-grow it, I can spend more money later.

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If you really want to know why sony is the pick of 99% of skydiving videographers and why they hold their value, 1. do a search first!, 2. go buy one and use it and found out why for yourself.

Maybe that question wasn't quite phrased correctly. What I was really getting at is Why not buy Canon? I have done dozens of searches and I've spoken with and listened to several camera flyers at a couple of DZs. I know that the vast majority of camcorders used in skydiving are Sony. In fact, I've not seen any other brand. I also know that most people on here use/like/prefer them. That doesn't mean that everything Sony is wonderful or that anything else must be crap. I was wondering if anyone else actually had tried the Canon and whether there were any reasons to avoid it like there is with the HV10.

I have found one possible reason so far since my original post. It seems that the Canon ZR850 may not have a thread for lens attachment. I'll have to confirm, but that certainly would be a strike against the Canon. This is the kind of information I'm looking for.

[dragon2 2]

Did ya do a search already?!? If so you would have found that generally other brand cameras quit after just a few jumps (yes of course there are exceptions, duh), and have some other problems like tape flutter, settings that cannot be saved, autofocus that cannot be turned off, image stabiliser that cannot be turned off and makes the footage shake all over the place, and of course no lanc although sony is starting to get rid of that too.

I personally know a guy who WORKED for canon so he ignored the warnings because he got a major discount, he sold the camera real quick because it was unusable for skydiving. A girl i know that flies tandem video bought a panasonic hdv camera and it broke after a few months and now she's looking for a sony trv again.

BTW the pc series are not so much better than the hc series they are just more sought after because most skydivers seem to want to sidemount.

Read the replies -again-, then go buy a canon if you don't believe all the camera flyers here (why the HECK would we lie to you?????), go jump it a few times and see how you like it

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[stratostar 5]

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If you wanted to say that you think the PC series of cameras were more rugged than the HC series, then you could have just said that.

Because that's not what I'm saying! What I'm saying is EVERY Canon, JVC, Panoshit, I have seen people just like you who were told to NOT get those brands for skydiving and didn't head the advice, found out those brands are crap and won't hold up, there fine if you want to film grandma's B-day party or make a home porno tape and shit like that, but they SUCK ASS for skydiving, period!

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do a search on here and you'll find that a bunch of people are flying HC3x and HC4x series cameras

Then you didn't search enough or read through enough posts then, because there are ton's of posts talking about the TRV's, PC's, HC's as well as the HDV's. Had you really done your homework, you wouldn't be asking those questions!

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I have found one possible reason so far since my original post. It seems that the Canon ZR850 may not have a thread for lens attachment. I'll have to confirm, but that certainly would be a strike against the Canon. This is the kind of information I'm looking for.

It sould be clear to you by now or had you done your homework, you not going to get that kind of info here, no one uses that brand, we all use Sony.

So as I said, if you really want to "out grow it" and spend more money down the road, then go buy the ZR850 slap it on your head and try it out. If you want to be smart and save money in the long run and have years of use out of your investment, then GO BUY A SONY! Even a used TRV 520, 70, 80 90 etc. top mounted will last for a long time and can found for a few hundred on ebay, if you must have a side mount the PC's and HC's are the way to go, yes you will spend more for those.

The bottom line in skydiving videography and still camera work is, don't be a tight ass, buy the right tools for the job, good glass & cameras, you get what you pay for!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 5]

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Maybe that question wasn't quite phrased correctly. What I was really getting at is Why not buy Canon? I have done dozens of searches and I've spoken with and listened to several camera flyers at a couple of DZs. I know that the vast majority of camcorders used in skydiving are Sony. In fact, I've not seen any other brand. I also know that most people on here use/like/prefer them. That doesn't mean that everything Sony is wonderful or that anything else must be crap. I was wondering if anyone else actually had tried the Canon and whether there were any reasons to avoid it like there is with the HV10.

I have found one possible reason so far since my original post. It seems that the Canon ZR850 may not have a thread for lens attachment. I'll have to confirm, but that certainly would be a strike against the Canon. This is the kind of information I'm looking for.

The thread for lens attachment isn't all that big a deal. I assumed by mentioning stabilization, that might give you something to search in the forums.
So...reasons to not buy Canon;
Newcomer in the camcorder world
Poor stabiliztion in their camcorders
Weak/lightweight bodies
OEM transports that aren't terribly tough
Some have LANC, many don't
There are more reasons, most of them trivial, but reasons nonetheless. For example, their A/V output is different than Sony or Panny. Many of their cams are bottom load, which is a PITA for skydivers. Many of their low cost cams are not glass, they're plastic lenses. They have fewer warranty centers in the USA vs Sony and others (for camcorders).
Canon is the bomb when it comes to still cams and lenses. Sony sucks at still cams/lenses (old Minolta=new Sony). In other words, being a Canon still fan shouldn't make you a Canon camcorder fan, if that's the motivation.
Buy whatever you want, obviously, but when it breaks...don't expect much sympathy from this crowd.

[peckerhead 0]

My experience was a bit different.

My first video camera I bought for skydiving was a Canon ZR25 and I made about 100 jumps with it, mostly tandems. I never had a problem with it and the video was great. It had a lanc, threads for a wide angle, lots of digital effects and so on. It was not exactly cheap either, I think I paid $850 for it and comparable Sony's were going for just over a thousand at the time. I had it mounted directly on a helmet - no box.

As I started to do more tandems everyone kept saying that I should get a sony, get a Sony, get a Sony! Sony's are so much better, blah, blah, blah.

So I did. I sold the Canon to another up and coming vidiot who is still using it without any problems.

The Sony was a bit heavier and had more features (most of which I never used) But I honestly thought the video quality was better with the Canon, and unlike the Canon the Sony did have problems after just a few jumps which required service. (no charge covered under waranty)

To me it is kinda like the guys who say you should only jump PD reserves. Sure PD is great but other reserves work too.

Both have made so many models over the years I am sure some of the Canons suck for skydiving and likely some of the Sony's are not well suited for jumping either. I certainly would not go with cheap regardless of manufacturer. A good friend of mine just got a new Sony and he has had nothing but problems with it. (I am not sure which model but it is one of the cheapest they make)

Anyway, I am a top mount guy and I wanted HD so I currently jump a Sony HC3. (my 3rd video camera)You can't go wrong with Sony but I never had a problem with my Canon.

I guess the next question would be why does everyone jump Canons for stills? Why not Sony? I have seen tandem stills from Sony's that looked great to me.

[brettski74 0]

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The thread for lens attachment isn't all that big a deal. I assumed by mentioning stabilization, that might give you something to search in the forums.

Yeah - saw them, but comments about Canon's are fairly rare with almost as many positive posts as negative ones and the ones I found about poor stabilization and similar problems were at least four or more years old. Their still camera electronics had gone through at least two new generations since then. It seemed reasonable to expect that they may have improved on their video performance in that time, also. The only recent comments about Canon camcorders were around the problems with OIS on the HV10. The ZR850 doesn't use OIS, so those comments would seem not to apply directly and at least some people seem to be reporting similar problems with OIS on Sony's HC7, also, so this seems - at least to my inexperienced mind - more like a technology thing than a brand quality thing.

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So...reasons to not buy Canon;
Newcomer in the camcorder world
Poor stabiliztion in their camcorders
Weak/lightweight bodies
OEM transports that aren't terribly tough
Some have LANC, many don't
There are more reasons, most of them trivial, but reasons nonetheless. For example, their A/V output is different than Sony or Panny. Many of their cams are bottom load, which is a PITA for skydivers. Many of their low cost cams are not glass, they're plastic lenses. They have fewer warranty centers in the USA vs Sony and others (for camcorders).

Thanks. Some good points in there that I hadn't yet considered. Doesn't the lightweight body comment also apply to some of the newer Sony products such as the HC28/38/48. I haven't yet put one in my hand, although a friend's HC26 did seem much lighter than some of the old PC series cameras I've seen. An HC28 that I've seen in stores seems similarly lightweight. I'm not sure that I've seen the HC38 or HC48 first-hand, yet.

For the record, I'm aware of at least some of the historical reasons for Sony's dominance and I was (and still am) leaning towards a Sony for the proven track record for performance and reliability and wide availability of a variety of mounting hardware.

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Canon is the bomb when it comes to still cams and lenses. Sony sucks at still cams/lenses (old Minolta=new Sony). In other words, being a Canon still fan shouldn't make you a Canon camcorder fan, if that's the motivation.

I will admit that I am a Canon still fan, so that may have been part of it, although there were several factors that made me question whether I should be so quick to rule it out. My goal was to make sure I wasn't going to rule out the ZR850 without due consideration. A complete lack of positive response for this specific camera is enough of a reason because I have no intention of being a guinea pig. The point is that if there is anyone out there flying a ZR850, this is about the only place I'm likely to find them, even if it is only a very slim chance.

Has anyone ever considered a camera/camcorder category in the gear section of the website? It would probably make it a lot easier to find specific info on specific models and how well they work for different skydiving applications. It takes an awful long time to find useful information from searches alone, since some searches will return thousands of hits and knowing what to search for to reduce that to a more workable number that still finds something useful about what you're wondering is often difficult - especially when you're a rank newbie at video like me.

[pilotdave 0]

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Has anyone ever considered a camera/camcorder category in the gear section of the website? It would probably make it a lot easier to find specific info on specific models and how well they work for different skydiving applications. It takes an awful long time to find useful information from searches alone, since some searches will return thousands of hits and knowing what to search for to reduce that to a more workable number that still finds something useful about what you're wondering is often difficult - especially when you're a rank newbie at video like me.

I started putting something like that together. Fully editable by anybody that wants to add to it.

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/wiki/index.php/Video_Cameras

Feel free to add anything you come across in your research.

Dave