Getting paid...

[DSE 5]

Different industries, but the same concept as what many of us to for friends, general public, or "publicity." Someone asked me in a PM recently how I felt about getting paid for skydiving photography.
I sent them this link.
it's a great rant, and although I don't advocate quite the same position he takes, even skydivers might benefit from leaning a bit more in his direction.

[Couloirman 0]

FKNA hilarious. Thanks for that. He's got a very valid point... But he worked on the Babylon 5 before this, and probably already received a paycheck for his time no? I mean, is he asking to be paid twice?

I would liken that(asking to being paid twice) to federal estate tax laws. I already paid the freakin government tax on the money when I earned it from working, now I have to go and give them half again when I die so my kids cant have as much??? WTF?

[diablopilot 2]

I think I love this man!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[brettski74 0]

Quote

He's got a very valid point... But he worked on the Babylon 5 before this, and probably already received a paycheck for his time no? I mean, is he asking to be paid twice?

It depends on the nature of his agreement with whomever did the interview. I'm guessing that since he expects to be paid for the use of the interview, the terms under which the interview was done included him retaining at least some portion of ownership of the result. This isn't asking to be paid twice for the same thing. His payment for doing the interview obviously included some or all of the IP rights in the product. Now he's able to sell other people rights to use that product. It's more like the owner of a conference hall being able to sell rights to use the hall for events.

[DSE 5]

Writing for Babylon 5 and doing an interview about writing for Babylon 5 are two different endeavors.

Looking at it differently, Norman Kent shot the CRW event this weekend. He gets paid for the photos. If I hire him to do an interview about how he shot the photos, he gets paid twice for the same event, but not for the same end-product.
It might work out that I'd give Norman some royalty in exchange for his interview fees (which is fairly common), and something like that may well be the case with this interview.

At the end of the day though...if you're feeling like you're a professional videographer/camera man, then act like one, and expect to be treated like one.
As a terrific example, look to Laszlo. He might give some pix away, that's his business. But he watermarks every shot that goes up online, and demands payment for use of his work regardless of where it goes. And his rep precedes him. Same with others, but he's a convenient example.

[Couloirman 0]

Touche to you both then...

[Laszloimage 0]

Thank you Spot!
Now I have to credit Tony Hathaway. He started to give me advices about the business and copy right aspect of photography. Of course I learnd some stuff the hard way too when I got screwd more than once over the years
Anyway thank you for educating people here at DZ.com of the "dirty" financial and legal angle of the job we're doing.
...if everybody knew in the sport about these issues probably nobody would bitch about not to have enough money to buy another lens or camera, 'cause they would get paid for their work.
-Laszlo-

I've been called greedy too. Now some of those hireing me for even more. Intersting...

[jtval 0]

AMAZING!

I AM FWDing THIS

My photos

My Videos

[quade 4]

DSE --

Good luck to you.

I tried for years to educate folks but there is always, always, ALWAYS somebody waiting in the wings willing to hop on board for a cheap ride. Even in this very thread there has been the, "but he already got paid for it" sort of response.

BTW, you want a rant, Ellison is a pussycat. Go talk to Steve Scott next time you're at Perris. Tell him I sent you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shunkka 0]

perfect
thanks for sharing

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"jump, have fun, pull"

[Coreece 190]

Awesome....I'm posting a link to it on craigslist for all the cheap basturds looking for a media professional....Did you ever see some of those posts and what they wanna pay?

The worst one I think was somebody wanting a 2 minute 3D Animation for $50......

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Iceburner 0]

being new at getting paid for my videos (i.e. tandem and now fun jumps too) i have a question about the pictures...i remember a thread kinda like this one before, but yea...here's my question:

If you watermark your pictures, give them to a tandem/fun jumper, and they post them all over on the internet, legally are they supposed to pay you? Or is it more of if they are advertising something then you need to get paid for it? proly a stupid question, but like i said, i'm new.

on a side note, how much do you charge when a fun jumper wants to get video from you...i normally do the jump slot and some change, but is there a standard i just havent heard of?

[quade 4]

Quote

being new at getting paid for my videos (i.e. tandem and now fun jumps too) i have a question about the pictures...i remember a thread kinda like this one before, but yea...here's my question:

If you watermark your pictures, give them to a tandem/fun jumper, and they post them all over on the internet, legally are they supposed to pay you? Or is it more of if they are advertising something then you need to get paid for it? proly a stupid question, but like i said, i'm new.

Tandem/fun jumper/a-hole/myspace . . . probably not a lot you can do except to tell him to take down the photos if it really bugs you.

Other BUSINESS taking a photo and using it . . . that's a whole other ball game and depending on the relationship you want to maintain with them and easily winnable lawsuit.

***
on a side note, how much do you charge when a fun jumper wants to get video from you...i normally do the jump slot and some change, but is there a standard i just havent heard of?

Varies from DZ to DZ. For awhile some camera flyers at one DZ I knew had a sort of standard price . . . then . . . some folks started complaining . . . then . . . less experienced jumpers would do it for less . . . now . . . the going rate is less than HALF of what it was 5 years ago.

Just something to think about.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Iceburner 0]

it doesn't bug me about having my pics online, some have actually caused other tandems to request me for a video/stills (proly the tandems friend, but either way i was slightly flattered)

as for doing the fun jumpers vids/stills, i have been undercut by a newer flyer (doesnt' do it for work, just for fun) and figured that if nothing else i know i can give a quality movie/pics, whereas newer jumpers (aka almost 200 jumps, straps camera to head) may not know some of the editing/flying stuff...but o well. I've even referred people to better video flyers than myself awhile back because i wasn't sure i'd get the shots they wanted.

Anyways, thanks for the info/advice. I think a lot of jumpers simply dont know what it takes to fly camera, both from the cost of equipment/tapes/etc to the experience needed.

[dragon2 2]

You're talking about giving them pics that they paid for right? So then they can put them on the internet yes. It's one of the uses they pay you for these days... as long as they're not getting paid for them and even then, it's probably work for hire so tough luck. I'm usually fine with people putting up pics on the 'net that I GAVE them as long as they credit me And i never put anything like a watermark/logo on pics someone paid me for (tandemjumps, funjumps, teamjumps)

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Iceburner 0]

the only pics i'll watermark are the funjumpers, and it's in the lower right corner, not very big as not to ruin the picture. i always thought tandems paid enough to not have my name on every print they'd get