why are some dv tapes shit (sony) an others are not

[rhys 0]

I have notices sony DV tapes seem to pixle when other brands do not.

Anyone got a reason for this. sony recommends using their tapes for their camera (obviously) but they give me the most dramas.

DSE you would be the man for an explanation, no?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DSE 5]

I assume by "pixle" you mean that it displays blocks at times.
These are dropouts or errors. All digital media has errors. How the camcorder/format/tape deals with the errors is the real question.
Tape is made in monster-wide 12' rolls. It's then sliced and re-spooled on 4' rolls. Product that comes from the center of the rolls is "premium" and the product that comes from the very outter edges is "budget/low grade." The 4' rolls are then spliced to 2' rolls after cross-band testing, and the rolls that come from the center most of the original 12' rolls is the very best stuff, has a better carrier, and better error track control due to greater saturation of particulates. It's then sliced into 1/8" or whatever size it's supposed to be, and spooled onto the small spools we see in the housing.
BTW, there are only effectively two manufacturers of tape in the world, Fuji and Maxell. Maxell makes Sony's tape. Fuji makes Panasonic's tape. BASF was the big player for a long, long time, until they sold out to Emtec, who bit the dust along with Ampex.
I get a chuckle when folks tell me how much they hate Sony but love Maxell.
Bear in mind that there are good Sony tapes (can't buy them at Walmart) and shit Sony tapes (they're colored, and you can buy them at Walmart). Just as there are shit Panasonic, Maxell, Fuji, TDK, etc tapes, and there are good ones.
If they cost less than 3.00 each, they're probably crap.

Shorter answer, some tape loses signal because it's cheaply made and other tape doesn't because very close attentions are paid to it in the manufacturing process.
BTW, some tapes are more prone to gunking up heads than others, simply because of how the substrate in the tape lies on the tape itself. If it's linear vs "splattered" it will gunk up heads more quickly.
Use mid-grade tape and never reuse tape for best results.

[Laszloimage 0]

I think DSE is a the man to answer these type of questions all the time.
I have no answer at all, but most definitely I have the same experince. I always have this type of issue with SONY tapes (even if their camera gear is superior without a doubt) So, my Sony camcorders have the least problems when I use Panasonic tapes.
I'm not kidding, I have no clue about the explaination, but that's how it works (at least according my experince).
-Laszlo-

[BMFin 0]

I have always thought most problems people get when mixing different brands of DV tapes together..Sticking with one brand is important, since mixing different brands will cause problems. This is because the different lube between different brands.

heres something I found from the net that will explain the issue :


"All Metal Evaporated tapes contain a lubricant layer that differs slightly from brand to brand and usually do not cause any problems when they contact each other in the tape transport of a recorder.

However, they can react to each other when other substances are added and this problem can be avoided by regular cleanings. Once this reaction has taken place, several problems can occur, including the newly created substance, now a form of contamination, being transferred to the surface of the tape and deposited on other transport components, creating a myriad of problems that can eventually lead to a head clog situation.

The best way to combat this is to thoroughly clean transport at strict regular intervals and absolutely before changing brands of tape if you have been using one brand and decide to switch to another. There is no such thing as "wet" and "dry" type lubricants pertaining to Metal Evaporated tape, they are all chlorine based lubricants applied to the surface of the tape while it is still in the vacuum chamber where it is manufactured."

[DSE 5]

The issue of lubricated vs non-lubed tapes died a few years ago.
Sticking with one brand still isn't a bad idea, simply because of design, but the dry vs wet is a gone issue for new cameras and new shooters. If you've got shelves of archives, it's quite possible and even likely you've got wet tape, but the new electrolayering processes at manufacturing have done away with wet vs dry application.
At one time, it was a huge issue.

[BMFin 0]

Did you read my post ?

Isn´t that pretty much what I just said ?

[DSE 5]

yup, I read what you pasted from camcorderinfo.com.

I was responding to your first para, which is incorrect;

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I have always thought most problems people get when mixing different brands of DV tapes together..Sticking with one brand is important, since mixing different brands will cause problems. This is because the different lube between different brands.

[BMFin 0]

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yup, I read what you pasted from camcorderinfo.com.

I was responding to your first para, which is incorrect;

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I have always thought most problems people get when mixing different brands of DV tapes together..Sticking with one brand is important, since mixing different brands will cause problems. This is because the different lube between different brands.

What part exactly is incorrect may I ask ?

At least the information from camcorderinfo says you may very well have problems when mixing different brands.

They also indirectly suggest sticking to one brand since they recommend cleaning "absolutely before changing brands of tape if you have been using one brand and decide to switch to another"

[pilotdave 0]

This is interesting to me. When I got a camera a couple years ago, I did a lot of searching on dropzone.com and the consensus was that sony tapes are the best and never use anything else.

What's DSE use?
Dave

[DSE 5]

For skydiving, I use the Maxell Red Label; from Mediaright in lots of 250, they sell for 2.72 per tape.

For the work for hire in the field, we use AME II tape, typically Sony tape, but on occasion, we'll also use the JVC-branded Maxell's. Sony's tape comes from Maxell anyway.

Saying "Sony tapes are the best" is somewhat like saying that "Ford is the best."
Ford makes shit Jags and excellent tractors, and a lot of in-between products too. Sony doesn't make tape, but they do pay Maxell (as one of their OEM's) a fair amount of money for OEM'ing their high grade. I think that their shit tape comes from the lowest bidder in China.

[erikph 0]

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It's then sliced and re-spooled

if this is done poorly, you can mess up perfectly good premium source material. (dustfree environment, controlled humidity, traction during spooling, etcetera...)

is the slicing and re-spooling done by Fuji/Maxell, or is it done by the consumer brands like Sony (or a third party)?

blue skies,

http://myjumps.blogspot.com/

[DSE 5]

Quote

***
is the slicing and re-spooling done by Fuji/Maxell, or is it done by the consumer brands like Sony (or a third party)?

I don't know. A the plant I visited, the Sony AMEII tapes were in one of the rooms, and yes, they're all dust free, anti-stat, etc. and were being sliced/spooled there. But that is just one of several plants they operate, so I have no clue what it's like in other facilities. However...bear in mind that these places also manufacture library archive-grade DLT and military grade tape etc on the same machines, and by law, they have to observe and maintain specific tolerances.

[quade 4]

One other issue that people don't seem to talk about much because they simply don't know any better is that leaving your tapes paused or still with the heads spinning really does a number on them.

I've seen people prep for jump run by putting their helmet on, switching their camera on and leaving it on pause for several minutes at a time. That's really a horrible practice and has a tendency to cause the heads to clog up and especially in humid weather.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhys 0]

Cheers for the informative reply.

I was told about the slicing of tape etc but not in detail.

I use TDK tapes @ AUS$23 for a 5 pack with absolutely no problems. most others at work use the same brand and they all go through the same editing cameras.

What com[pany do TDK tapes come from?


Thanks.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DSE 5]

I don't know who OEM's TDK, but my guess would be that it's a mix of companies, topping out with Fuji on the high-end TDK.
It's a WAG, so don't build gospel on it.