Why don't you like Pullouts?

[hookitt 1]

Yep your right. My bad...

but as it rips from your hand it's in the air and pulling away from you...

Any way... oops

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[JFC3 0]

Becasue she complains when I get it all over her belly!

"Five days? But I'm angry now!"

[billvon 2,998]

>If you're not trained for that, or expecting it, the PC could easily pull
>itself out of your grip and flip over your back.

I disagree with this. If your grip is so light that any tension will cause you to drop it, you're gonna have a problem with a throwout as well. If you get it into the air, it inflates and pulls out of your hand - that's how it's designed to work. You do NOT throw a pullout PC, you just move it into the air and it takes off.

[skydiverek 63]

Quote

The fact that the PC is anchored at the base, rather than the apex means that you get considerably more drag on the thing as you pull it out.

Why isn't a pull-out PC anchored at the apex, then? What is the advantage to have it anchored at the base??? Wouldn't the pull-out PC anchored at the apex be the best of both worlds??? This would be like a pull-out PC that you can throw-out!

[rigging65 0]

We're getting off track again. Please post other questions about pullouts to another thread. I'm really trying to keep this just for negative comments about the system. Thanks!!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[tbrown 26]

I seem to have stirred up the pot a bit with my speculation about a base anchored PC being harder to hold onto. In truth, I have never used a pullout system, so have never experienced what, if any different forces a jumper might experience using one. My views are speculative, but have nevertheless contributed to my not using a pullout, at least not thus far.

The incidents I mentioned happened, whether I reported them in this forum or not. My best friend had a pullout flip over his back and found himself under a baglock, pulling both handles simultaneously as he went thru 500 ft. He made it, and still uses a pullout.

My impression is that a pullout can be a safe, perhaps safer system, if you're willing to take personal responsiblity for how you use it. In principle, I like the idea of personally opening the main container before releasing the PC. On the other hand, someone in this forum also voiced the opinion that her PC would do the job more forcefully than she could. I don't use a pullout, my views may well be mistaken, but they are why I don't use one.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[billbooth 10]

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This thread kind of morphed from another, so I thought it needed it's own place.

Here's the question: What are your HONEST reasons for not liking a Pullout? "I know nothing about them" is a perfectly acceptable answer. In fact, ANY truthful answer would be great.

Here's the caveat: If you like pullouts (regardless if you jump one or not) PLEASE DON'T POST HERE! I want to get a collection of REAL answers to this question and don't want to pollute the answer pool. Everyone is free to answer, just please be honest.

My last point before I let this go: I jump a pullout and do so for many reasons. Regardless of the outcome of this thread, I won't respond to any of the posts (unless the poster asks for a response), so you're safe there. This thread is simply here to gather information so that I (we all) can see what people think.

I thought this was settled 10 years ago, but I guess it's good to go over it again for the newbies. I have the patent on both the hand deploy and pullout sytems, so I am biased only by 30 years of observation. One was a good idea...One wasn't.

1. A BOC pilot chute, in a spandex pouch, is by far the most reliable deployment system for your main. Hard pulls and pilot chutes in tow are very, very rare, and floating handles are, by definition, impossible. Add to this the fact that you can't "throw" a pullout out of the burble (which extends well beyond your fingertips in a stable face to earth deployment position) because you never have ahold of the pilot chute itself. You end up "dropping" your pullout in the burble everytime, unless you contort your body (go slightly unstable) right at pilot chute release to "break-up" the burble. All successful pull-out jumpers have developed this talent, whether they realize it or not. But we all know that being "slightly unstable" at pull time is not a good idea with a small elliptical canopy.

2. We all also know that "out of sequence" deployments are not a good thing. (For instance: You don't want your canopy to get out of the bag before your lines unstow, do you?) Well, do you really want you main container open before your pilot chute is developing drag? A pullout deployment is out of sequence by definition.

These first two reasons is why wing suit jumpers shy away from pullouts, but they apply equally to everybody.

3. Since both pullouts and BOC throwouts are in the same location, with similar (if not identical) handles, it hard to make the argument that a pullout is more secure to freefly with.

4. The lost pud (pullout handle) malfunction is very dangerous, because you "know" you can fix it if you just try a little longer. Many very experience jumpers have gone all the way into the ground working on that theory.

5. No one in their right mind would start a student out with a pullout. Why? Because everyone knows that they are simply harder to operate correctly. This means you must transition to pullout (probably with no instruction) and all transitions carry risks. (I know, if you start out with a ripcord, you have to transition to a hand deploy. But one transition is better than two, and main ripcord deployments are invaluable training for that inevitable first reserve ride.)

6. Over 95% of the rigs we sell are hand deploy, so it has become the defacto standard. With no real advantage to pullout, adhering to a standard is better for everybody because of problems caused by borrowed and used gear.

I'm not saying it's impossible to jump a pullout safely. I know many jumpers who have done it for thousands of jumps. What I am saying is that it is harder, and therefore will result in more deployment problems than a BOC. You have enough to worry about on a skydive. Why add a pullout to the list?

[rigging65 0]

I want to thank everyone for their input, especially Mr. Booth. Your aged wisdom is always appreciated!

The information that you've all put forward reinforces the idea to me that the pullout system is what it is....a slightly more complex and less well understood system. Many of the concerns voiced in this thread are based off pullout designs and concepts from years ago. Many of them still hold true, some I don't believe are valid anymore. But the point is, perception is reality. There aren't more pullout systems out there, because there are so few pullout systems out there to begin with.

Again, thanks to everyone who posted, I appreciate your candor! Happy jumping!!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[paulagc 0]

My first 500 jumps were with a pullout, and my last 500 were with a throw out. I switched solely for the reason that grabbing the "banana-style" pud on my Racer was hard to do with cold hands and gloves in the winter.

[vt1977 0]

I've condidered getting my rig changed to pullout but the thing that really puts me off is that I get extremely cold hands in winter and don't much like the idea of not being able to get a good enough grip on the pad. Also I've seen the old floating pad - reserve ride scenario several times. I'm happy enough with BOC and have never had a problem with it so can't see any good reason to change it.

[riggerrob 643]

I don't jump a pull-out because the colour clashes with my man panties.

[JDBoston 0]

I found the same thing, but for $15 or so they made me a new handle that is much easier to keep a grip on - shaped like this (looking at it from above):

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Joe